OT: End-of-life electric vehicle batteries.

Recently I saw a video where the presenter advoicated the re-used of EV batterioes for use in houses as a storage method for things like solar electricity production.
He stated that even though a (for example - the exact figures are lost in the abyss of my memory...) 60kWh may have reached the end of its useful life for driving purposes, it could quite happily live on as a store for e.g. solar for use in a house.
Is this correct? (I don't know much about battery chemistry)
Thanks in advance.
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IMO if a lead/acid cell is (tech term) buggered it IS buggered. May take a residual charge but that will soon dissipate. Nick.
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I thought the vehicle batteries were Lithium Ion these days?
Brian
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On 12/04/2014 09:04, Brian Gaff wrote:

Only in some high performance cars. Even the Toyota Pious uses Nickel based batteries. Some hybrid buses are beginning to use Lithium batteries, but they are hated by the engineers, as they are so unreliable.
Most of the small utility vehicles you see bimbling round sites are still using lead acid, as they're cheap, acceptable in performance terms, and well understood by the engineering staff.
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A bit more than that if the recent Forbes piece was right in its references to work by BMW et al. http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterdetwiler/2014/03/18/the-afterlife-for-electric-vehicle-batteries-a-future-source-of-energy-storage/
I wouldn't want to use ones from Boeing though :)
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Well, not the ones currently becoming available to the "Surplus Market" right now but how about in a few years time when the slightly heavier armoured units become available? :-)
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wrote:

The one's in motor cars are all "armoured" already for crash protection.
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On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 11:01:12 -0700, David Paste wrote:

As a battery ages its internal resistance rises, the result of which is that the terminal voltage drops below a usable value for the current required. Providing that the new use for the battery is going to require it to produce appreciably less current then it may well be ok. At least for a while.
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On Friday, April 11, 2014 7:01:12 PM UTC+1, David Paste wrote:

Just how useful is a somewhat knackered and thus short lived battery? If you dont mind replacing them often, it can work with some batteries. Better is to remanufacture them, easy to do at home, if you dont mind playing with lead compounds.
NT
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On 11/04/14 23:53, snipped-for-privacy@care2.com wrote:

assuming we are talking lead.
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On Saturday, 12 April 2014 00:34:43 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Indeed, I should have made it clear that the talking head was on about the kind of batteries in a prius / Tesla (so I think that is nickel for the prius, and lithium for the Tesla).
Although the talking head sounded enthusiastic about this idea, I have seen him talk utter twaddle about similar matters before. My initial scepticism was compounded by his fervour.
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Electric car batteries are in the range 15-25Kwh. As they deteriorate to a point when the range of the car os signifcantly reduced, no doubt they will become available. This is just someone's idea, it might be viable if there were lots available.
There is another idea of leaving electric cars connected to the mains when not in use and using them to store power against peak requirements. All pie-in-the-sky at the moment. Pretty costly too. But virtually all future options are.
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There isn't enough lithium in the world for it to be lost on a large scale from EV operation, so the economics will force recycling for new EV use. It is likely that with widespread use, you probably won't own the lithium in your battery, but will lease it from the owner, unless other technologies become widespread in EV's and lithium doesn't.
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Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Also, not sure I would want to push a large life expired lithium battery beyond its design life like this. Sounds like a recipe for fireworks.
Are there any batteries that would really suit this usage economically, deep discharge once a day (assuming the intent is to cover night time use). Most batteries either do not like deep discharge, or have limited charge cycle life.
Chris K
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On 12/04/2014 15:53, ChrisK wrote:

Lead Acid traction batteries or, if you can get them, NiFe batteries probably give most bang per buck at the moment.
They both need regular maintenance and care with the charging regime for best life, though.
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David Paste wrote:

I think one of the Grand Designs (or similar programmes) houses that was off-grid had a collection of ex-naval submarine batteries for providing standby power.
Owain
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That was Ben Law's cruck house? It had no mains electricity, so hardly a standby supply. ;-)
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

standby when the wind isn't blowing or the genny isn't gennying.
Owain
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writes:

http://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/news/europes_largest_energy_storage_centre_to_integrate_70_renwables_to_grid
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On 13/04/2014 08:01, harryagain wrote:

Useless article.. is it 6MW power at some unknown storage capacity or 6MWhr at some unknown power or do we assume they just don't have a clue?
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