Varoufakis's lack of repentance is always great value although
primarily for entertainment.
One of his central arguments seems to be that Greece's voracious
appetite for German motor cars (made possible by exceedingly generous
EU grants and financing) should somehow be blamed on the German car
producers who made a profit. It was not just cars that the Greeks
gorged themsleves on but other goods too.
The truth is Greece got easy money by faking statistics about the
state of its economy (and the EU conveniently looked the other way)
which it wasted by riding high on a hog for years until one day the
party was over. What did Greece think it was doing? Did it really
think it had a near infinite bank loan at giveaway rates to further
ingulge itself and prop up its widespread corruption and its
addiction to tax avoidance.
This was all made worse when Varoufakis miscalculated that the EU
could not afford to let Greece leave the EU. Accordingly he put his
game theory notions into action to create his bizarre (but highly
entertaining) negotiating strategy based largely on brinkmanship
which only ratcheted up Greece's misery.
His Paris Match photo shoot displaying a comfortable life style
didn't exactly help either. :-)
Our days would be cloudier without him.
Indeed - there is no getting away from the fact that they got way to
happy with the cheque book!
That however is far more worrying.
Its the reported comments from the ex German banker about the eurozone
lending policy, and the follow on bail outs that are quite revealing
They probably figured that all the time they could create (at least
apparent) growth that exceeded their rate of debt growth they were
"safe". Shame no one thought about what happens when recession or an
unexpected "shock" to the system comes along.
Yup, that was rather novel....
EU: Here Greeks, have a really bad deal
Varoufakis: Nope we are not prepared to accept that
EU: You must accept it, or the shit will really hit the fan!
Varoufakis: Nope still not playing
EU: OK the shit has really hit the fan, all we can offer you now is an
even worse deal!
Varoufakis: That will do nicely!
On a separate point how has Greece (which in ancient times was the
cradle of Western civilisation and gave birth of Western thought)
end up so hopelessly decrepit today? The place looks like dust
bowl and the food is terrible too.
By contrast, after a bit of a blip Ancient Rome bequeathed us the
Rennaisance and the subsequent rise of Italy and Europe which is
maintained to this day.
Maybe the voluble Mr Varoufakis also has an answer to this. :-)
Because that stuff you listed didn’t last long there.
In modern times they were always way behind the rest of
the civilised world and had a full civil war quite recently.
Because it rains less there.
Plenty would disagree with you about that.
Except that Italy is still a political shambles even now.
And I was amazed when I discovered that many of the local
italians can't even understand other local italians with they
arent speaking english. Where I live has ended up dominated
by italian immigrants, maybe not quite half the locals, who
mostly came here after the war.
He hasn’t got an answer for anything, typical rabid lefty IMO.
You can visit some countries today and easily detect cultural
traditions arising out of their history. But if you go to Greece,
apart from the ancient ruins, you may as well be in Albania or
Moldovia when to comes to detecting anything from its extremely
It's not just the climate but also weak farming. Too much of the
countryside is still just subsistence farming and is so
undeleloped that you almost expect to bump into Socrates coming up
It may be subjective but Greece is never going to top a list of
countries with the best food.
Italy as a state is relatively young and local identity remains
strong which includes those very different local dialects and
yummy local food.
Despite that, culturally and economically Italy is in the first
division along with most of the rest of Europe. I remember how
back in the 1980s Italy was proud to have overtaken the UK in
terms of GDP per capita although mainly by taking account of its
large and dodgy shadow economy. Didn't last long though.
Can I pass on this one, Rod? I like to think you want to engage
in useful discussion but by taking points out of context, raising
unimportant exceptions and overlooking the original ideas, this
exchange is quickly heading into ever deeper misunderstanding.
It's not that what you say is entirely wrong. It isn't. It's
that this seems to be going off at so many tangents, some based on
misinterpretations of what was said, that I wonder what we are now
I started with comments about Western civilisation and Western
thought with respect to Greece but now I see Persia, Egypt, China
and Japan. I mentioned the Renaissance as an important addition
to Ancient Rome but you are comparing only the ancient world. I
am not even sure how Roman cuisine is part of this discussion as I
mentioned modern day Italian cuisine. When I mention the shadow
economy at the end you reply about political viability.
It's all every well to widen the discussion but I think there's
nothing useful to be gained here by debating the points further.
Let's move on.
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:10:26 +0100, John Rumm wrote:
I read it through in several chunks.
Makes me glad that we are out of the Euro, and sorry for Greece.
The central premise seems to be that the so called Greek bail out was in
fact all a subterfuge by Germany to inject money into their failing banks
without breaching EU rules.
How long can they keep doing that?
And why did they want to?
To my mind, and I expect to be called a racist by some lefty, but here's
how I see it:
1) If the EU had remained as the EEC, it would have been simpler;
2) Barring 1, if the EU had had minimum economic criteria for
membership, it would have been better. Something like:
a) If you have an economy on parity with the UK, France, Germany, then
you can join as a full member with full freedom of movement.
b) If not a) then you can join EU-Lite, which gets you:
i) Preferential trading with the Club;
ii) Limited movement - eg VISA and work permit free movement for 30-60
days per year, after that you need to have a work permit from a job you
managed to secure. This rule is at the discretion of the home nation and
the employer's nation.
3) No Euro. Or if they really must have, then full members only.
4) Absolutely no making laws across the bloc. If they want to ban
Glyphosate for use on crops destined for EU wide trading, fair enough -
but if the nation wants to use the product at home, or on crops not
destined for EU trade, they can.
We could have had a lot of the advantages without the side effects.
The biggest single mistake is letting countries with weak, or basket
case, economies and governments join with strong countries.
I have no problem with trying to help small nations develop with loans
and good trading terms (eg Eire, who did quite well) - but they don't
get to join EU-Full until they've proved themselves.
I think that would have solved a lot of the problems.
Of course, it's completely at odds with Expansionalism!
HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.