Opening for Patio Door

[John]

My mate is wanting to replace his sliding patio door set with a plastic framed French window arrangement (with filler panes each side).

A guy who gave a quote suggested: "The way the bricks are laid above our window (soldiers fashion -long edge vertical) and the horiz pointing underneath not continuous with nearest level course of bricks, points to no lintel ."

The house is early '80's. The opening is about 8ft. Is the expanation correct? How can it be easily proven as it makes about £250 difference to the quote. Would such an opening have no lintel? Could the soldier brick just be a styling feature?

[Roger Mills]

Dunno! I wouldn't have thought that Building Control would have allowed that to be built without a lintel in the 1980's. Were they involved, or is it part of a large development in which any (minimal) inspection would have been carried out by the NHBRC?

If there *is* a lintel - or maybe a couple of lengths of angle (one for each skin) you would certainly expect the bottom of the soldiers to line up with one the courses either side of the opening - unless the lintel has some sort of step at each end - which seems unlikely.

Probably the only way to find out is to chip away some of the pointing immediately above the existing frame, and see if the edge of anything made of steel is visible.

[dom]

Try searching with a magnet.

[A.Lee]

I've just been working in a 1995 bungalow that had no lintel above the bedroom window. The windows were being changed when i was there, and although the bricks didnt fall down when the old window was removed, they did certainly sag, so they were took out anyway. The bricky took 3 hours start to finish to replace them, and charged £60. Alan.

[Rednadnerb]

I was on a course last year and was amazed to learn that windows are considered to be structural components and take the weight of whatever is above them. Maybe not in all cases, in fact definitely not now that I think about it.

I think the guy who gave the quote has got it right.

[Invisible Man]

I used to handle claims for one of the largest national double glazing companies. A lot of their "surveyors" didnt seem to know that some window frame parts were load bearing. Acrow props don't fit in with most peoples decor.

[Roger Mills]

And even if they did, the new plastic frames won't carry the load like the wooden frames which they replace!

[Tony Bryer]

When I was a BCO (1976-84) it wouldn't have been allowed. It's not uncommon on older inter-war properties where the frame is made of 4x2 with mullions every two foot or so. My guess is a Catnic or similar steel lintel - judicious removal of a little plaster on the top reveal next to the frame should confirm.

[Steve Walker]

There are plenty of plastic frames with structural steel tubes in them - unfortunately many installers seem to "forget" to place and pack a spreader plate under the required points!

SteveW

[John]

I believe the aluminium sliding doors are original. Hardwood trim / frame

[John]

Does this work - does it help?

[Tony Bryer]

In that case I would 95% sure that there is some form of lintel but the only way to be sure is to cut away a little plaster on the window head and see what's underneath.

[Roger Mills]

. . . or, even, above - or is it different in the antipodes?