Oil Fired boiler woes

[zymurgy]

Ok, i've googled to no avail, so i'm stopping by in here.

I have a Riello 40 fired boiler, but it's going into constant lockout. It's had a couple of emergency 20L oil drums thrown into the tank, and the oil has been bled through to within about 1ft of the boiler.

It's not exactly 'flowing' as the tank is still quite low, can the Rello lift the oil itself via the pump, or do I need to prime it right to the pump ? How ? I can't see any bleed valves or any way to get the oil further.

Is it self priming ?

I've replaced the gate valve on the tank, and there's a flow of oil coming out of the filter, so the oil level is definitely above the outlet (!)

There is also a device which I take to be an oil flow cutoff valve (it's connected to a capillary tube) and is in line with the oil feed with a label 'push buttton hard to reset', but I can't see a button to press on it :/

Any advice appreciated before I get a man in.

Cheers,

Paul.

[gazz]

i know bugger all about oil boilers really, except owning an eberspacher diesel fueled heater in my motorhome, similar way of working i guess, just a much smaller scale.

i would deffo prime it right to the pump, most pumps do sod all when they are pumping air, as the air just compresses so wont move along easily,

i'd run the pump and crack open the outlet fitting, the oil should then be able to flow to the pump, when it's coming out the cracked open fitting with minimal air, close the fitting, and it'll be able to pump the oil to the burner.

That'll be the fire valve, i'd imagine the button you need to press only pops up when it's been activated by the boiler overheating, or any other reason it gets too hot to think theres a risk the oil will be feeding an out of controll fire.

[robgraham]

I have a Riello 40. I have run the tank right down to empty on several times in the 20 odd years I've had it and the pump has quite happily coped with that when the tank was refilled - it does have a 10 ft lift. Having said that I was warned by the service engineer that the pump does rely on the oil for lubrication and running it dry can knacker it.

I do remember when commissioned the guy couldn't get it to work and found in due course that a coupling was leaking air into the system.

Do I take it you don't have the handbook which has a Fault Finding Chart? When you say 'lockout' what actually do you mean ? Is the burner firing and then cutting out or is it just not firing ?

Rob

[zymurgy]

Nope, no handbook, no manuals, nada.

It fires, and the boiler fuel pump runs, but there's no oil appearing at the inlet to the pump, which led me to believe it wasn't self priming. then the big red light comes on and the boiler pump motor shuts off.

There's 4 ports on the oil pump, 2 on the side and 2 on the bottom, one f which is an inlet. I'll see if I can get the pump better primed.

Thanks for the warning about the pump lubrication. I did see some warnings about overuse of the reset button can damage the boiler, and it now dawns on me why ... ;)

Paul.

[cynic]

Yes you do need to bleed it right to the pump On the pump facing you are two screws, one with a drak finish and a slot for a screwdriver - DO NOT TOUCH THIS ONE or you will have to pay someone to set up the combustion again! Below it is a hexagon headed one which is a plug in a port on the pump. Remove or slacken this one and as long as the oil supply is higher than the pump air will be displaced from this port and oil will arrive. Provide a shallow tray to catch the spillage and ensure the plug is properly replaced and seals (when running this port will show the burner atomising pressure between 100 and 150 psi)

Not normally, furthermore the time-out is very short on the Riello control so repeated resets may not succeed in drawing fuel through before you have damaged the pump by running it dry.

There are a few makes of capillary firestop valve about. The commonest has a small button under the brass body. Unless the sensor has been subject to excessive heat it should not have tripped closed

Riello pumps are getting on for a hundred quid so if you have damaged it you are looking at an expensive running out of fuel session

[Dave Liquorice]

Slight contradiction there. If it has no oil how can it "fire"? An oil burner goes through a start up sequence.

1) Power is applied, motor starts and pump runs for a few seconds. 2) The ignitor is activated. 3) If the boiler lights (fires) the flame detector switches off the ignitor and the boiler continues to run. 4) If the boiler doesn't light after a few seconds of ignitor it shuts down and "locks out".

If when the boiler is running the flame detector detects lack of flame you jump to 2)

[jim]

indeed - assuming it fires and then quits - as Dave summarises, I suggest checking filters as probly bunged or partially up with "bottom of tank" crud - rust, dirt, water etc. Given a few minutes/hours enough will seep through for an attempted start, only to fail when the oil pump cannot keep it coming at the required rate.

Had this exact scenario on ours last year - Riello 40 too - there was a hidden filter under leaves by tank!! choked to the max with rust etc.

ope it elps Jim

[Heliotrope Smith]

Nope, no handbook, no manuals, nada.

It fires, and the boiler fuel pump runs, but there's no oil appearing at the inlet to the pump, which led me to believe it wasn't self priming. then the big red light comes on and the boiler pump motor shuts off.

There's 4 ports on the oil pump, 2 on the side and 2 on the bottom, one f which is an inlet. I'll see if I can get the pump better primed.

Thanks for the warning about the pump lubrication. I did see some warnings about overuse of the reset button can damage the boiler, and it now dawns on me why ... ;)

Paul.

If it fires for a second or two before cutting out it could well be a sooted up photo cell. Release the control box fixing screw and pull of the control box. the photo cell is connected to this. If the cell is dirty then it cannot detect a flame and quickly shuts the boiler down. A wipe over with a rag is normally sufficient to clean up the "eye".

[Dave Liquorice]

A possibilty but we need to know what the OP actually means by "it fires". I reading:

To mean that no ignition takes place within the alloted fan & pump time plus ignitor on time. Thus the boiler locks out (big red light comes on).

Rather than it does ignite but the flame isn't detected thus causing a lock out.

[zymurgy]

Thanks, you're full of good news ;)

I don't think it's goosed, I asked for advice before going much further.

P.

[zymurgy]

No, my bad, bad terminology.

Fires as in fires up the motor. I think the pump is dry, so it's fuel starvation.

Time to get the oil into the pump. Back in a bit :)

P.

[zymurgy]

Can't get the oil to the pump, so it's time for a partial fill rather than faffing with the emergency drums to get the oil level up to the input of the pump.

I was trying to get away with as little fuel as possible, as the short term plan is to relocate (and actually replace) the tank.

More on the DIY practicality of that in another post. Let's get the boiler going 1st ;)

P.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember [e-mail] saying something like:

Easy enough with a pump and as many 205L drums as necessary.

If there's no blockage and the fuel pipe doesn't have a rise/hump/kink in it, it should flow. Are you sure the outlet from the tank is at least

100mm above the burner?

[zymurgy]

Nope, there's no fall in the pipe at all, it's pretty flat. There's a nice man in a tanker turning up tomorrow, so we'll know then ..

P.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember [e-mail] saying something like:

There's your problem. While the tank's empty, can you raise it up by

100mm?