O.T. Temp stop watching live TV

[John Rumm]

Whilst I appreciate that the non workability or complete daftness of legislation does not usually figure in the minds of those charged with enacting it, this does not seem quite right.

Firstly some material is relayed on the internet "live" already - the news and some sporting fixtures spring to mind. Currently AIUI they do not claim that any owner of a computer and internet connection should pay the license fee - only those using it to access said material.

Secondly it seems to contradict the current policy that *owning* TV reception equipment alone is not enough to trigger the requirement to purchase a license - its the use of it to receive or record a broadcast that counts.

[Frank Erskine]

Hmm - it might be different round your way, but in the rest of the UK TV 'licence' offences come under the Communications Act 2003, which comes under criminal law...

(Sad, I know!)

[John Rumm]

Even if that is the case, that is no justification whatsoever for their intimidating and unpleasant behaviour. Although their communications do not seem to acknowledge the fact, one is still innocent until *proven* guilty[1].

I don't see the DVLA harassing unlicensed people on the presumption of driving

[1] Yes I know that RIPA and various other bits of legislation have destroyed this universal right without so much as a whimper from Jo Public, but AFAIAA TVLA have not yet had similar powers of presumption extended to them yet.

[Tim W]

John Rumm wibbled on Wednesday 18 November 2009 00:56

IME the only way of getting through to them is write a letter telling them to f*ck off, absolutely literally. I did, and worse. It got an apologetic reply starting with "I understand you aren't happy..." (really, Sherlock...).

They then buggered off and left me alone.

When I eventually installed a TV, I bought the licence.

[ARWadsworth]

Better still "When I eventually installed a TV that I watched live broadcasts on I bought a TV licence"

You can install a TV at any time without a TV licence:-)

Adam

[Andrew Gabriel]

They certainly turn up in magistrates courts by the bucket load. I had to sit through loads, whilst waiting for the case of a stoned youth who kicked my wing mirror off.

I was also somewhat surprised that there were a few plausible (to me) defenses launched against the prosecutions, but none succeeded - magistrates view was definately if you appeared in front of them, you were guilty, and if you claimed otherwise, you just pissed them off. So I wouldn't reckon on teasing the inspectors and then mounting a defence in court.

[Jonathan]

We have a flat that we are developing as a let. It is currently uninhabitable and certainly has no TV. We have been harassed for 18 months by the licensing people and been threatened with court, despite explaining the situation multiple time by letter and telephone.

Eventually a plea to my MP stopped it all and a =A325 cheque by way of an apology - Result!

Jonathan

[Neil Williams]

They already do to some extent, and a licence is only required if you actually watch it.

Neil

[Neil Williams]

So you propose that a licence is required for every PC with a Web browser, as every such PC can receive live broadcast - not just through the iPlayer, but also through things like the BBC News website which I recall broadcasts live bulletins?

(I believe this was proposed to be the case in Germany, but it is emphatically not the case in the UK, whatever TV Licencing might like to think).

Neil

[The Natural Philosopher]

All BBC channels are live on the internet.

IIRC all ITV is as well these days, though quality is poor.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I forgot to renew my SORN on the landy that has become a motorised wheelbarrow.

When I finally DID they threatened me with prosecution!

Its an attitude and culture that has become totally prevalent in the last ten years.

Obedience to the letter, and bugger the spirit.

[Dave Liquorice]

Not so much culture, as in real people dealing with things, but the blasted computers that run everything spewing out stuff according to their programming. Real people have very little to do with many transactions these days.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I disagree.

Humans write the systems. Humans ajudicate the edge cases.

The problem is precisely one of people being tasked to implement rules, not achieve a particular end result.

The one exception that still exists, is building regaulations.

These are couched as

"This is what this regulation tries to achieve" "Here are some methodologies that meet the requirements without question" "However, this is not an exhaustive list"

I.e. there is no absolute requirement to fit double glazing. There IS a requirement to meet insulation standards.

[Mike]

I have to agree re the spewing of computers. I pay my BT bill "cash" and not a DD etc. When I get the bill, it is followed the next day by a letter announcing that payment is overdue .. with the usual threats !! I think it is BT's way of hoping I will go onto a DD or something

Mike P

[Dave Liquorice]

True but only to what the law says or their interpretation of the badly thought through specification. The computer then follows that blindly.

When you can get one involved who has authority to make such ajudications. Most teletubbies on "customer service" lines can only follow the script in front of them, they cannot make adjudications without refering to their "supervisor".

But some things are just a rule. Not renewing a SORN is an offence end of story. What is the particular "end result" for SORN?

[The Natural Philosopher]

No. it isn't. There are many reasons why it might not be renewed.

So that vehicles that are on the road do get licensed.

>

[John Rumm]

Its your classical programmers "rogue value". First they wrote it such that all vehicles *must* have a tax disc unless exempt. Then they thought of a way of kludging the system to all for the cases where the black and white rule meets real world grey. In reality there would have been no harm in making a sorn another exemption that stuck until notified otherwise, but they created a special type of free virtual tax disc instead. Perhaps because that way it raises the possibility of generating more funds from fines issued against people who forget to renew their virtual non tax disc when it runs out.

[John Rumm]

What defences were offered out of curiosity?

After a couple of episodes of dealing with similar circumstances, I found the easiest way was to write to them once with a polite letter explaining the situation, saying that should the situation change we would of course notify them and purchase a license, and this was "until further notice". Then simply bin all further communications from them unopened, thus without getting wound up by them. They still kept coming, although after a while changed to be addressed to "The Occupier".

They do at least allow you to notify them via the web site now which saves a stamp or premium rate phone call.

[ARWadsworth]

Now I like the introduction of that service. No stamp or premimum rate call needed

But the big problem is still there. You still have to have your house inspected by a TVLA officer before the threatening letters stop.

I also notice that it is not mandatory to supply your name on the form.

There should be a box at the bottom that says

"Check this box if you would like to withdraw the implied right of access at your property to our inspectors"

Adam

[geoff]

In message , Tim W writes

Yeah - same here (at work)

Yeah same here ... for a while, then they started again

I don't have, nor do I intend to have one at work

The PRS are even worse