Number of pipe clips - opinion...

[Tim Watts]

Last Dec I made a cold water distribution manifold -

Mains comes in top right, through a pressure regulator.

Top right 2x15mm are a pressure test dial and an early take off for garden taps.

Then there's a main secondary isolator (so you can turn the house off and leave garden auto-watering stuff working).

The stuff on the left are take offs for bathroom, shower room, kitchen etc.

Anyway - I'm fairly sure I've overdone the number of pipe clips. Many were done to aid assembly at the time so they've served their purpose.

Before I connect up any copper to that lot I do want to make sure I could, for example, get that main lever valve out if it needed fixing.

So I'm thinking of demounting it while it's straighforward and removing a few - particularly the plastic clips top right.

I will probably replace the top right plastic with brass clips that have saddles.

So what do you think? I suspect clips right by the tees are unecessary for a start. But I do want to make sure inline valves are supported.

[John Rumm]

I would suggest you could get away with one brass saddle clip on the backbone pipe between the left two vertical drops. You won't need any of the ones close to the backbone on the branches. The ones on the far sides of the isolation values may on may not be needed - depends on what connects to them (i.e. copper / plastic) and how.

[newshound]

I think you could lose the ones by the tees, at least assuming that there is a saddle clip on the left hand side of the horizontal run (hidden by the wood?).

[Tim Watts]

It'll all be copper drops with their own clips further down.

Thanks for that. I think you are right.

As I said, it was handy for initial assembly but it's going to a PITA to split anything for maintenance after the fact. I'll pop it off and remove those central plastic clips. The other ones I'll deal with when I make off each pipe to the blanked off valves.

Next time (on the hot assembly that will overlap that lot) I will use munsen clips - partly to get the spacing out - but they can be fully retro fitted and removed.

[Tim Watts]

Thanks - I agree with you and John. Just feel warm hearing other people suggest the same :)

Yes, there is a saddle hidden - the end has a 22m isolator that will eventually lead to the boiler.

[Graham.]

Either I am getting the "Doolally-taps" (see what I did there) or you made that pipework a a year before last December, and posted about it the following monrh.

[Tim Watts]

I made it last Nov/Dec - but am planing to do the final connections and add the hot manifold this spring.

It was in this thought phase I wondered how maintainable it would be - so a slight tweak may be in order whilst it's still easy.

I usually make a judgement error between the first time I set something out and completing the job so do tend to make in the middle mods...

[Mike Barnes]

If you openly admit that that's your normal procedure, a career in politics is obviously not for you. :-)

[Tim Watts]

Good - I hate politicians...

But yes - when doing something for the first time, it's hard to think every little detail through - and it's always 100 times simpler on the second or third time.

Here I overdid the clips as I initially thought support was good (and it did act as a jig for lining stuff up) - but then looking at it the other day, thought "how would I change the secondary main isolator valve for the house"? (main main one is in a kitchen cupboard).

I've been through several iterations with electrics too - thankfully before I committed cable to clip...

A real sparky would just do it.

But at work, I "just do it" with generally excellent results because that's what I do all day...

[harryagain]

Why bother? The additional clips don't hurt. May prevent water hammer in thef uture. I see you have used crap valves. It will all have to be redone in ten years or so. It would be good if you can arrange things so that the valves can be easily changed. Though is was way OTT having so many. Just more stuff to go wrong. More potential leaks.

[newshound]

Always a ray of (renewable) sunshine

[Tim Watts]

(Addressing harry who is in my killfile for talking crap)

"Crap valves"? Amazing you deduced that so easily.

The lever/butterflies are Pegler and the others are flow restrictor valves from BES - probably made by Robert-Pearson.

First time I've heard Pegler called "crap"...

Nope. Each branch feeds one logical place - kitchen, bathroom, shower room, garden, utility space (washing machine). It made good sense to put them in a central location - but only because that's how my house works (it just happened stuff branches out from this space quite neatly).

It also avoids problems with stagnant dead-legs of pipe, if for example we use the utility space for a freezer rather than a washing machine or the garden taps are isolated over winter.

This is why he's in my killfile.

[Chris French]

Harry always has a downer on ball valves whatever there provenance

[ss]

Well I havent a clue if or what support is needed but it looks good and I just wish my plumbing looked as good as that and accessible. I like to see neat job.

[Tim Watts]

Thank you - I did mark out the clip fixings on the wood with a ruler and a set square :) (Hence all the clips).

But don;t look too hard at the actual joints - I have a tendency to flood solder rather than risk too little, which is why I usually use yorkshires! Just had a load of spare end feed fittings so used them on this...

[John Rumm]

Don't mind harry - he thinks gate valves are good ;-)

[GMM]

Just my two penn'orth but I think it looks like a nice neat job and I wouldn't touch it, now it's there. Those plastic clips would cut off easily if you needed to get a bit of movement at some point and who knows, maybe you'll never have to touch it? (Not that I'm unsympathetic to your central premise as I always try to do things so that I can reverse/maintain/etc them in the future!)

[harryagain]

Well he's spent a lot of time on it and made a neat job. But all you need is one stop valve in a domestic house and make it a good one.

You only need multiple valves on large commercial applications where the rest of the system has to be kept running for money/safety reasons.

Most problems in pipework systems revolve around valves, less valves= less problems

[Andy Burns]

Is Germany going to shut-down for the morning of the 20th?

[harryagain]

They are crap because the design concept is crap. Often they are made using inferior alloys. They are disposable, "proper" valves will outlast them and can be serviced/repaired in line without removal. As you actually only need one valve for the whole houses cold water, it wouldn't have cost any more.

Peglar are just middle of the range manufacturer. They make these valves just to stay in business, people buy these valves because they don't realise they are buying crap. (Or don't care) What's the point of a valve that'll likely be siezed up when you want to use it? And after you've used it may leak even if not siezed. A leak that can't be fixed.