Newbie needs advice on hot water cylinders

[Malc-C]

Hi,

We moved to our three bed semi about four years ago, and I soo realised the that the previous owner was a keen DIY bodger, especiall as everything had the Wickes brand name (incl the boiler).

Within weeks of moving in the boiler leaked and had to be replaced. W got conned by a local cowboy and ended up paying the earth for a ne Baxi Solo 3 boiler, 1 rad, new pump and room stat. Anyway we soo found out later that winter that the thermostat had no effect on th operation of the boiler, and we either froze or cooked. Not knowin which component might be at fault I checked the Screwfix web site an purchased a Horstman kit containing a new controller, 3 port valve junction box and a couple of stats. However making head nor tail o the instructions I left them in the box with a view of getting plumber to install them at a lter date. We then developed a drip fro the expansion tank overflow as so earlier this year we called in a fe plumbers to get quotes for sorting it all out and replace the suspecte old ho****er cylinder.

The resulting quotes seemed fairly high, so I took the bull by th horn, and ripped out all the electrics on Saturday and installed th new kit, and have a fully functional centar heating system now. Whe the thermostat reached temperature the boiler shuts off - I'm s chuffed

Armed with this confidence I now want to replace the hot water cylinde myself. It all seems simple enough, but just wanted input from you guy as to any pitfalls there may be (eg that the inlet and return to th boiler are non standard sizes ie not 22mm or that I need specials tools to complete the job). The best price I found so far for a 450

900 indirect cylinder is £97.16 + VAT from a local plumbing suppl centre (Screwfix are out of stock :( ) - does anyone know of anywher cheaper or is this a keen price ?

looking forward to receiving your replie

-- Malc-C

[Malc-C]

Local cache problems caused duplication of post - sorr

-- Malc-C

[Malc-C]

Ignore this -- problem with local caching on the PC

-- Malc-C

[Malc-C]

OK so we've discussed the merits of censorship so that if I miss th

space between hot and water it censors what it thinks is t w a t, bu can somone answer my questions raised in my post ??

Jeff Wrote:

Malc-C

[Andy Hall]

That is quite a good price. However, check that the cylinder is compliant with part L of the Building Regulations (energy saving). It is a requirement when replacing a cylinder to do so with one to at least this specification. There should not be any on the market that do not meet this requirement, but it is possible that there is old stock around being dumped at low prices.

If you fit the cylinder yourself, as opposed to using a professional from one of the approved competent persons schemes, you are also supposed to notify Building Control at your local authority.

In terms of special tools, the only one that perhaps you don't have is an immersion heater spanner, but these are cheap enough.

[Andy Hall]

I am sure that several people *can* answer your post. However, saying "please" would be courteous and using a proper news reader rather than a web site which is stealing information from news groups would be even better.

Contributors to the Usenet group, uk.d-i-y do so in their own time in a voluntary way and not as a paid service.

I'll give you some comments on your original question in a separate post.

[Malc-C]

Sorry, I was just a tad miffed that having received an e-mai notification that there had been a reply to my post, the replies didn' help answer my questions.

Thanks for the pointers... I'll search out a suitable emersion spanner but please tell me why would I need to contact my local authority t inform them I've replaced the cylinder.. I could understand it if I wa building an extention etc, but not for something "simple" as changin the cylinder

-- Malc-C

[Malcolm]

Andy, sorry, I was a tad miffed that after receiving a main notification the replies were discussing the merits of the auto-censorship, rather than helping me by giving advice.

Thanks for the comments, I'll pick up a spanner for the heater at the time of purchasing the tank. Please could you tell me why I need to inform the local authority (council ?) that I've changed the cylinder, I mean its not like I'm building an extension

Malcolm

[Jeff]

Please could you tell me why I need to

afaik - the new regs specify that you must, when replacing use :- condensing boiler TRV's adequate controls fast recovery cylinder

Jeff

[Andy Hall]

Some other small tips:

- Often the immersion heater is stuck in place on the cylinder. It's almost certainly not worth trying to remove and keep the existing one, but for the cost, getting and fitting a new one.

- Some immersion heaters seal just with as fibre washer. Others require some other form of sealing like a wrap of plumber's hemp and some Boss White.

- It's best to lightly tighten the new immersion heater in place, then fill the cylinder with water before final tightening. There is then less risk of distorting the cylinder

- Special heat proof flex is available for immersion heaters. Don't use the ordinary stuff.

Regarding the council. A cylinder change is a notifiable work for Building Regulations.

information on this and there are useful links related to controls etc. The point is that this is a "controlled" activity under the Building Regulations and you wouldn't be able to self certify.

In practical terms, will you get caught? Almost certainly not.

The rub comes when you try to sell the house. Typically a purchaser's solicitor's enquiry will ask if any controlled work has been carried out and if so whether the required procedures have been followed.

At that point you can either perjure yourself or would have to seek regularisation from the local authority - cost is about the same as a building notice application. Alternatively you can plead ignorance.

This is something you have to decide for yourself.

[Andy Hall]

Not quite.

You don't *have* to replace the boiler if you are only replacing the cylinder.

If you do, then it has to be a condensing model unless there are specific problems in installing as defined by a points system.

In any case, controls may need to be upgraded.

A fast recovery cylinder is not specifically required, but may be otherwise advantageous albeit more expensive. A cylinder approved for part L1 is adequate to meet the regulations.

[Jeff]

What I meant to say was, if you change the boiler then it has to be replaced with a condensing model and if you change etc etc

Regards Jeff

[Malcolm]

Thanks guys for the info, the confusing part is that in one section it states that you don't need to contact the council if you are simply replacing (this was under the electrical section) items, which in the case of the controls I was (and used the existing wiring). Then it states that notification should be made when replacing the cylinder. I'll give my local council a call later to see what they say.

My argument is how would anyone know when work was carried out. EG lets say I done some electrical work, used the old RED / BLACK wiring, who's to know if this was done after or before the 2005 regs...(this is fictious I might add). If I changed the tank I assume it has some form of data stamp or code to identify that it complies with the current regs and thus should show up with the council if a search is made if we ever sell the house ?

I've had an electronics background, and have been trained in mains wiring when I worked for BT, so I'm fairly competent, but not qualified.. I installed my bathroom suit when we moved in five years ago and there have been no problems with the plumbing, so feel quite competent at changing the cylinder. These new regulations seem more like a way of taxing the DIY'er rather than protecting people from "cowboy traders". Watching the past episodes of Rouge Traders it would appear that even so called corgi registered people have no idea on how to treat gas work, etc.

Maybe I should just pay the extortional fees local plumbers charge and let them cover the inspection ???

Thanks for all your advice guys

Malcolm

Andy Hall wrote:

[Malcolm]

Well I just had an interesting conversation with the building reg department of my local council. They confirmed that when replacing the hot water cylinder I am NOT required to notify them. They also confirmed that I don't need to have the system inspected following the replacement of the controller or other parts of the electrical system as this comes under "general maintenance". If I was installing a new system then it would need to be inspected, mainly due to the new regs concerning boiler efficiency.

Malcolm

Malcolm wrote:

[Matt]

Wiring has the date on the outer sheath, not that you can see it when its buried in a wall.

Tanks that are Part L compliant have the month and year clearly marked (on a label you could easily remove!)

[Christian McArdle]

It is to ensure that the new cylinder is energy efficient. It requires a thermostat, fully independent controls (from the central heating), pumped primary circulation and sufficient insulation.

Christian.

[Christian McArdle]

Before you do, decide if a direct replacement is the best option. It will probably be the cheapest option (assuming your old one really is knackered). However, there are many alternative systems that might provide much higher performance for some additional cost.

Christian.

[Christian McArdle]

Surely some mistake? LS-X and PTFE for a potable system!

Christian.

[Doctor Drivel]

And essential to have a quick recovery cylinder.

[manatbandq]

I didn't think anyone considered the water from a hot water cylinder to be potable.

MBQ