New ideas

Hi all,

On my hols I saw some interesting new products which for various reasons we don't commonly have here.

One which I thought might be useful is an interior wall mounted PIR unit. It fits onto a standard electric accessory backplate. It has a small discrete override (0-Auto-1) switch. The idea is that passage way lighting comes on where there is activity and goes off when there is none.

Usually when this is done (I've implemented an external version of this in the passage under my house.) there is an annoying blink when the PIR comes to the end of its time period and then re-sets as you move by.

The timer units abroad seems not to do this i.e the time period runs from the last detected movement not the first movement.

Anyone seen this type of product in the UK? I didn't unscrew the unit to find out if it needed a neutral - and series PIR units damage the low energy bulb as most of us have found out at some time. Since the bulbs were low energy types (but they had enough of them in each fitting to work well). I expect the unit did have a neutral. This would make retro-fitting them for staircase lighting difficult, unless they used the earth and leaked only a few micro amps to it?

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Anyone know what the pay back period (by water saving) for a PIR operated basin mixer would be? My rough guess is something like 100 years. I.e. Would it be better to invest the money in saving water by other means? Comments?

Reply to
Ed Sirett
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Mounted PIR Switch Simply replaces existing wall switch - no neutral wire is needed. It fits into a plaster depth (16mm) wall box. Has a manual override off switch on the front of the plate. Loading : Any type of load up to 6 amps (including fluorescent lights and fans) The minimum load for the WAOC is 60W of resistive load and 100W of fluorescent loads (The minimum wattage is 60W of resistive loads and 100W of fluorescent loads per WAOC if wired in parallel).

For water saving alone, probably an unrealistic option, but if you factor in savings/advantages due to:

- fuel costs on heated water, tap not left running

- washer/head replacement costs, tap not operated by user

- absence of accidental or malicious flooding and resulting repair/reinstatement costs, tap not left running

- reduction in cross-contamination, tap not operated by user

then it makes sense in some vandal-sensitive or industrial settings

Owain

Reply to
Owain

The message from Owain contains these words:

Reply to
Guy King

Very much like that. I think that with the trouble many people have with vacuum delay type switches for stairs and passages in blocks of flats, these could be attractive. However even a modest block of flats would require several hundred quids worth of units + fitting.

Points taken, probably a bit over the top in the domestic scene.

Reply to
Ed Sirett

The message from Andy Hall contains these words:

I hope that's irony I can hear there. And there's VAT on top of that.

Reply to
Guy King

£45.30.. Great deal considering how much energy you can save.
Reply to
Andy Hall

Always ;-)

Just think.. You can use lots of halogen lamps and hence save lots of money.

Reply to
Andy Hall

The message from Andy Hall contains these words:

I must confess to having a PIR light fitting in our downstairs loo[1] because it's got no window and we had trouble with visiting kids shutting the door before realising there was no light then having a panic 'cos they couldn't get out etc. That and the light kept getting left on. Works a treat and is also a handy tiredness meter - if I try to switch off the light I know I'm tired.

[1] Known as the sidraT 'cos it's a lot smaller inside than you expect.
Reply to
Guy King

In article , Guy King writes

It's all supply & demand, I knew some guys in the early nineties who thought such a product would be a winner and designed & built a thousand or so. They then marketed the product through local press & fliering in a good sized town at reasonable prices and the response was zero, nada, nothing. It was a good unit but they couldn't give it away, I bet they still have some in their wardrobes.

If we all wanted one they'd cost a fiver.

Reply to
fred

If a block of flats is big enough to need more than a few sensors then it probably requires 24-hour maintained emergency lighting anyway under HMO regulations, and is big enough to foot the electric bill for continuous lighting (on a photocell for nocturnal operation if required). Time-delay lighting gives such a cheap impression to tenants, and as accommodation providers are responsible under the DDA, may have to replace vacuum-delay switches if a disabled person cannot get from switch to switch quickly enough to keep the light on.

The sensor's expensive because it incorporates mains switching; using low-voltage PIRs back to a relay would probably be cheaper on apparatus costs although cabling would increase. Vacuum-delay switches can be replaced with low-voltage press-buttons back to a timer/relay.

Some door entry systems eg BPT have a second button on the handsets, to connect to the timer/relay allowing the stair lights to be put on from inside the flat. This means that nefarious types can't wait on the stair till the lights click off and then knock someone's door, knowing that the resident inside won't be able to see anythign through the spyhole.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

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price difference is too large to explain.

In some cases they are required in the US. The determining factor is that there is a five-year payback.

Regards,

Reply to
GeorgeD

The message from GeorgeD contains these words:

It's easily explained. We in Britain get gouged regularly.

Reply to
Guy King

Your points are valid.

In the block I was thinking of there is a entry phone for the main front door. It's a purpose built block (1978).It is not subject to the HMO regs. There are two switches on each floor, one near two of the doors and the other by the remaining door, Also another one by the main entrance. That's at least 7 switches!

It would require considerable disruption to rewire the lighting. There is no end of trouble with sticking vacuum delay switches and switches which go for 3 seconds and won't adjust.

Reply to
Ed Sirett

Elkay also do electronic push button timers as well as pneumatic delay ones. AFAICS at least some of these work as direct replacements for pneumatic timers.

Elkay 350 - The activation on the 350A and 350AN is tamperproof. Pushing the button activates the time delay. If the button is pressed again while the unit is timing out, the time delay period will be reset. If the button is held down or jammed, the unit will still cut out when the time delay period finishes. The button must then be released and pressed again to re-start the timing sequence.

There are three ways that the 350A and 350AN can be wired, depending on the application; The timer can be used on its own, or wired in parallel with other timers in a 2 wire system, or used as a master with slave switches. When wiring as a master and slave, the cable run on the slave switches should not exceed 25 metres.

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Reply to
Owain

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