Or ignoring danger signs. The system in question showed plenty of them. Boiling water from the hot tap. Hot water coming out of cold taps. Noise. Anyone with sense would realise something was amiss.
It is at least easier to replace a convential system with a combi than it is to replace a combi with a convential system.
Maybe the developer got a good deal on a supply/install of conventional systems.
Guy
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Guy Dawson I.T. Manager Crossflight Ltd snipped-for-privacy@crossflight.co.uk
I agree the difficulty is whether the users can cope rather than the technical difficulty and costs. Above a certain size two zones are mandatory but the limit is quite high (and I can't remember what it is, other than the fact that long before the limit is reached you would want to consider zoning).
Serious suggestion: Leave clocks on winter time which is the time when the heating is needed, and in summer the wrong time will be irrelevant.
It surprising the number of people who simply like combis becasue of how stored systems /used to be/.
The only space used is for the (unvented) HW cylinder. Everything is presurized there are no tanks.
End used choice is a significant part of the input to system selection.
The major developers will not have got their marketing wrong. For every combi fan there will be more who want plumbing that works without any care.
Are you sure you're in the right thread?
Plantpot, please eff off as you are a total idiot.
Just back from the pub and pissed again. Please seek help.
Plantpot, please eff off as you are an idiot.
He is not on the right planet!
Frankly, when you look at the costs, a high output combi, enough to drive two bathrooms, is as expensive or more expensive than a lower spec boiler, and a PHW tank, and at least you get decent showers out of that.
The cost benefit swings away from combis when more than two people share a house IMHO.
It isn't tho.
I had occasion to do the sums.. a suitable combi for the peak flow was over £1200, a boiler and tank was only £1300.
Well in the one house I was in, it was the shrieks of outrage from the teenager upstairs trying to shower, while I was trying to wash my hands in a warm trickle in the downstairs loo, and mum turned on the kitchen tap to rinse a coffee cup...
Totally under specced, but brand new..
If its installed properly its probably safer than a unpressuised system as recent events show. Its DESIGNED to cope with the tank boiling.
As for servicing..what servicing?
In the case in point bulk discounts will apply - as will the cost of installation. It takes a lot more time to install a storage system than a combi - which is why the latter is so popular with 'plumbers'.
Yup. Of course there are ways round this but rarely implemented.
Do you keep up with current events?
Yes, granted, I'm rather prejudiced by experiences of long ago. My mother lives in a new home with a non-combi system, and while it all seems to work OK, I am reminded of its presence as the hot water heats up at 6.00am and makes a right racket ;-)
I hadn't realised that these new systems go from stone cold to bath hot in such a short time - that makes me far less bothered about which system I have.
I can only go from experience. Last home had a new combi fitted. Never serviced. One fault (fan) in 12 years. Current home has a combi (16 years old), one fault while I've been here, failed washer, 2 minute repair. I've plenty of experience of conventional systems needing repair
- but as I say, that was a while ago. Are they genuinely fit and forget for a decade or more?
Rob
Yes - and there was a thread about the recent inquest into a death from scalding when an immersion heater stat failed - but it wasn't *this* one!
For that sort of reheating performance you need to make sure that the cylinder is a fast recovery type. These can swallow the most or all of the output of the boiler and hence reheat very quickly. Older style traditional cylinders may only be able to reheat at rate of 5kW or so.
If you get lucky, either system can run for years without trouble. Alas the reverse is also true.
Care to spill the beans on which makes/models of combi boilers you had?
All systems can have problems, conventional systems tend to have the components spread out but it adds up to the same.
Apart from routine and regular checking (which of course will be left undone in a large proprtion of places) there should not be problems.
Sealed systems generally have less to go wrong except for one aspect which goes wrong quite a bit - the expansion vessel.
We keep on reading about the "required" "servicing" of Unvented HW storage.
It's true that the manufacturers might offer a very long guarantee (on the pressure vessel) but only if there is a full service history. The matter is essentially a marketing tool, it enables the concept of a 25 year guarantee on a product that is very very unlikely to fail in the period. Further mitigated by the almost certain fact that no one will have a full service history for the cylinder anyway over that period. The guarantee of course does not extend to bits that are likely to, occasionally, fail.
If we applied the same logic to boiler servicing then likewise no service history implies no guarantee. This does not stop people installing gas boilers or has much effect of people desire to have the boiler serviced after the first year.
Whilst there is a recommendation that owner have boilers and unvented cylinders serviced/checked each year. There is no enforcement of this except in rented accommodation.
As for the claim that no servicing -> no insurance. I have yet to see a policy schedule that states this as a condition.
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