New condensing boiler installation - truth or lies

So you are saying that it will adjust the bath taps for you now?

You really are an ad man's wet dream.

Reply to
John Rumm
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Sorry, I meant to say he would fit a condensing boiler with my conventional hot water store system as opposed to a combi system.

Well, what do I know (which I why I posted here). What I did take some confidence from is that the boiler he recommended was not small and did seem to be the higher end of the hot water producing rates of the boilers I'd looked at. I sort of thought if this (higher end) boiler didn't do the trick someone would have noticed/complained and I'd have been able to find this out on the net.

(Wary of potential jokes) we don't bath that often - the shower is the main thing. If the bath takes a little longer to fill so be it. Even with a stored hot water system, the filling of a bath needs attention to make sure it is not getting too hot or cold.

From youomments a programmable wall stat seems the way to go - I will make sure this is in the spec and that the TRV currently in the hall radiator also goes.

There was no menion of sleeving but given the thoroughness of plumber

1 I am assumig this was a detail he just didn' give rather than one he wasn't going to do - but now aware of it I'm all the wiser.

I am probably pushing it here but I've tried (jn vain) to find out if this valve is up to it. I can't find anything in the accompanying literature which helps (perhaps I've lost it - but I doubt it). What I know is that it is from the Hansgrohe talis range, fitted about 5 years ago and that my pump delivers (I think - see previous comments) around 9l/min ( I could post all the numbers on the existing pump). Interestingly, plumber 2 who has now provided a quote has specifically said the Miras shower valve I have on another gravity fed shower is OK and specifically said they don't know about my ensuite hansgrohe valve (so if it needs replacing I'd have to pay the costs).

Argh neighbours. As I think I said, there is around 3 ft to a 6ft high fence and then another 3ft to my neighbours house wall. She is coming up to 80 and frets about everything (as I suspect everyone coming up to 80 does). In fact she rang the doorbell tonight asking me to look at her boiler because she was worried it was going to explode because she'd turned her heating off and her upstairs radiators were getting warm. I don' think there'll be any real issue her but I would not want her walking past whilst some hot geyser shot out - she'd think it was wrong/broken/angerous and would want reassuring.

That's what I thought - I definitely had a better feeling about this guy.

Floor space, size and weight are not really a factor - I've got plenty of space, and a concrete floor and all I have to contend with is my wife's possible complaints that she's not got as much space as she would have liked. That is minimal compared with the shower isn't as good.

You may be able to detect I'm starting to favour plumber 1 by now but plumber 2 did not mention this at all and now his quote came in it included rotating the cylinder through 90 degress for easier access rather than because it was not up to spec.

I've now got the message - thanks.

Plumber 2 came in with 2 quotes for keeping my existing system (upgrading to specs) or going to a combi. Prices were:

£1788 for drain down system, disconnect boiler and remove from site and dispose of same,. Supply and fit worcester 28HE condensing boiler which would eliminate any problems with air in system, It also allows to retian existing hot water storage system cylinder but we would have to turn this to allow better access to pipes and to motorised valve. Cap off heating tank and remove same. Connect new boiler to existing central heating pipes. Supply and install new twin channel digital programmer complete with optimising room temperature control. Carry out all necessary electrical work to boiler and controls, including any necessary bonding to work we arried out. Refill system, drain and flush with BC10 fluid. Refill with addition of inhibitor and commission new boiler, carrying out necessary gas tests. Fill in Benchmark logbook and submit Corgi Notification as required under current regulations. Test the above and leave in full working order.

Sorry, I' getting cynical perhaps but I really liked the "Test the above and leave in full working order" - I'd enjoy paying for that - which surely the job would not be complete without.

quote 2 was basically to convert to a combi Bosch Greenstar 35CDI and required work - specific exclusions for the Hansgrohe shower valve which may not be up to the job - I don't like this as I'd expect that a plumber could confirm (or get confirmed) whether this shower valve was up to the job instead of saying it may/may_not_be and it is up to me to sort it out - I'm paying for the work and I'm not the expert - surely it is part of the expertise of the plumber (you are paying for) to spot this and satisfy themselves. If plumber looked at it and said it was not up to the job them it could be added to the quote but leaving it to me to decide when I don't know does not seem good enough. Cost £2380. Quote gives the possibility of upgrading to greenstar 40cdi at an extra of £200 + VAT without any recommendation - why? On what basis am I supposed to decide whether the 35CDI or the

40CDI is the right choice - here again - I'm not the expert and that is why I've called a plumber - if there are choices I'd expect some info to help me to decide.

There were 2 exclusions (fair enough except I'd not receive any advice) but on top of the quote was "flushing the system to get rid of sludge/debris which may have accumulated in the system over time and that could affect the performance of the new boiler" and "You do not have to have this done but it is possible that you may encounter problems with the manufacturers waranty should the bolier fail due to its operating on a dirty system, As installers therefore, we have to recommend that the system is flushed thorouhly before a new boiler is installled." . "jet flush of your central heating system would be £330.00 plus vat".

Scare tactics?

See quote above.

and at £330 + VAT and the comment that this would take nearly all day made me go off this guy.

In this increasinglly nanny state I can imagine having the documentation for this kind of work will be necessary. I cast my mind back to when we bought this house and after we did I very seriously thought about suing the surveyor who did not pick up some substantial faults we could have used as a bargaining chip which have cost us big bucks since.

Probablty none and that is a good thing - plus point for local plumbers .

Poimt taken - I was not clear enough.

My fault for not taking the point you made earlier - I will be following this up.

If I go combi this would be irrelevant,

I don't like hedgeing my bets. Ok, since posting the numbers are interesting since the keep my exisitng system but upgrade my boiler comes in at £1788 but then dd powerflush ( £330 + VAT) and £200 uograde to biigger boiler and plumber 1 is looking quite attractiive.

It is not that awkward. I replsaered hall and put in 25mm conduit which it would be easy to pull though unlike previous system which was so tiht there was no chance off pulling through new cable.

Thanksagain for the help and advice.

Martin

-- Martin J. Evans Wetherby, UK

Reply to
Martin Evans

A few BG engineers have told me that their "exclusive" boilers are rebadged Worcester Bosch's, which would also explain why ex-BG engineers favour fitting WB boilers like the one that just did mine.

Check the Worcester Bosch equivalent boiler. You may find it's virtually the same.

Reply to
RedOnRed

Since when has steam been considered low temperature?

Reply to
RedOnRed

It's not steam. It's water vapour. Like clouds, if you want.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Never, but you don't get steam from a condensing boiler flue.

It produces water vapour at temperatures < 100C, and at normal operating temperatures, below 60C - hence the reason for the question.

However, in practice, legionella does not seem to have been a problem with condensing boilers

Reply to
Andy Hall

problem

Yet....

Reply to
:::Jerry::::

I think that considering that condensing boilers have been in widespread use in much of the rest of Europe for 20 years, if this was going to be a problem it would have become apparent long before now.

Reply to
Andy Hall

It won't be either, as the water vapour from the flue is created a second or so before being emitted.

Reply to
Doctor Evil

Thought it had to be the 'fumes' from stagnant water kept at a highish temp and breathed in a confined space? Like from water cooled air con?

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Nah, it often comes through the DHW supply and out of the tap or shower.

However, air conditioning condensors are often in the 20C-45C critical range as well, so air conditioning is a major player, too, particularly in the larger outbreaks.

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

Nope. Above 60C and it is killed off.

Nope. Spay from open vented cooling towers can disperse the contaminated water about the place.

Not quite. Open vented a/c cooling towers. They are now all sealed.

1/10 Must try harder.
Reply to
Doctor Evil

Yes, pet. Which is why domestic hot water is supposed to be stored above this. Don't you know anything?

In the open air?

They should certainly be.

No star for you either.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

..the Plowman man he calls me pet ..of inverted gender he must be set ..he gives us info we don't need to know ..down our throats he rams it so

..instictively you will spy ..in newsgroups with DIY ..attempting wisdom this fool will try

..the info's so poor tis clearly true ..so how does this garbage affect you?

..well take no heed of babble and drool ..as this one is a confirmed fool

..he marches around in CAT boots of yellow ..this strange brain damaged sort of fellow

..misadvice he has lots to say ..so don't give this yellow booted half-wit the time of day

Reply to
Doctor Evil

My understanding is that you need a body of warm water standing around exposed to air. Condensing boilers have only a little amount of water in the trap, which is mildly acidic and anything which comes in from outside is going to get zapped in the burner.

Reply to
Ed Sirett

Mine too.

Plus presumably on a hot day with the boiler not in use it would soon evaporate away anyway?

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

IFIAK the water has to be 'aerosolised' into a spray at some point.

cheers, Pete.

Reply to
Pete C

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