Moving washing machine to downstairs toilet area?

Hi all,

I was round some friends tonight and they (well 'she' mainly) were talking of moving the washing machine out of the kitchen and into the reasonably large downstairs toilet / closet area and fitting a dishwasher in the vacated space in the kitchen (a 15 year dream of hers apparently) ;-)

They asked me what I thought and I wasn't sure of a couple (at least) of things?

Like the waste for existing hand basin in the toilet is only 1-1/4" (and it runs down through the concrete floor then under the house apparently) ? Would an ordinary standpipe and 'U' trap be sufficient (with the common part shared by a tiny hand basin as well)?

They have power on the opposite side of wall that would be beside the washing machine. Could a spur be brought up (to a 13A switched socket) to above the worktop they intend to fit over the washing machine or would it be best left underneath (and would there be any other issues bringing power into that sort of space (it's not a bathroom or kitchen))? Both power rings (u/d) are off an RCD if that helps?

Anything else?

All the best ..

T i m

Reply to
T i m
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On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:14:45 +0100, T i m wrote (in article ):

A couple of ideas.

- Run a test. This would involve cutting in a tee and a standpipe to the basin waste and trying it out. Obviously factors with the small size of pipe are the length and slope. Problems that could occur would be water squirting out of the top of the standpipe and the potential for the basin trap to be sucked dry. The trap issue could be addressed with a HepVO trap, but it would be difficult to address an inadequate waste pipe overall.

It would be rather foolish to commit to the electrics and the whole project without doing a basic test

- Alternative. Is the toilet soil pipe straight into the floor?

If so, it may be possible to fit a collar boss. Have a look at

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product code SCB41.

I used one in a cloakroom as part of a more convenient waste arrangement for a basin. Depending on the soil pipe socket in the floor, this component can either be fitted straight in or with a little excavation, sunk such that the bosses on the side are flush with the floor.

The bosses are 40mm which would certainly be enough to accomodate a washing machine.

I would put a switchable FCU above the worktop and a socket below. This gives a neat solution without flexes on view.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Ok,

With the washing machine etc I assume?

It's possible (assuming this is how they would normally do such things) the basin waste joins fairly quickly to the waste from the toilet under the floor so the narrow gauge run could be quite short?

Understood

As I have on my hand basin waste here (as my washing machine is upstream of the basin). ;-)

I wonder if you could just pour a known quantity of water (a 10l bucket?) down the existing basin waste somehow and see how long it takes?

Agreed .. thanks ..

To be honest I didn't look .. I will give em a ring and see if they can describe it to me?

Found. Ok, so this would all depend on how the soil exits etc .. good idea though .. plenty of capacity etc ..

Ok ..

Ok ..>

And holes / cropped corners bringing the cord through etc.

All the best and thanks for your input Andy ..

T i m

Reply to
T i m

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:53:43 +0100, T i m wrote (in article ):

Ideally, although perhaps one could simulate it with a bucket, a hose and a funnel?

God may be smiling on them. It would probably entail removing the loo to see.

That would be a start but then the trap is in the way and tends to reduce the flow. I suppose one could measure the flow rate out of the washing machine and then see how quickly the same volume of water takes to flow out of the basin.

Yes, and also the soil pipe connection in the floor. I was fortunate that mine was a little way below the floor and all that was necessary was to excavate the shape for the angled piece of the boss. There could be room to fit the whole thing above the floor, but if it's on show, a little ugly. Of course, one way round that would be to switch the bog for a back to wall or wall hung one and make the cistern a concealed one.

You would wire a spur from the circuit on the other side of the wall in T&E. Then run T&E from the FCU (pick one without flex outlet hole) down the wall behind the back of the worktop. Then fit an unswitched 13A outlet below worktop level. No flex on show.

Reply to
Andy Hall

It might well work. However, legally, you are supposed to use 40mm pipework for a washing machine, not 32mm. You could either ignore this requirement if you are so inclined, replace the pipework, or (complete overkill and not really recommended) pump the waste outlet.

No problem at all.

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

Ah, that sounds like the 'easiest' Andy .. assuming a full wash quantity of water is less than our total bucket count! ;-)

Ok, so an inspection is needed .. ;-)

Yep, exactly as per the picture in my mind Andy ;-) I was wondering 'why' one wouldn't just fit a single switched 13A socket, as it provides disconnection and fused via the plug top but I guess if something went wrong and the socket was hidden behind the machine etc?

All the best and thanks again ..

T i m

Reply to
T i m

Ah, ok, interesting stuff. So when you say 'legally' Christian what does that actually mean? I mean I'm aware electrics might come under PartP or gas Corgi etc but what 'law' would cover this sort of job please (and can it be applied retrospectively in which case loads of the work I have come across would have the 'plumbers' in jail quick-as-you-like!).

Ok, thanks. ;-)

All the best ...

T i m

Reply to
T i m

Building Regulations Part H.

Table 1 Minimum trap sizes and seal depths Appliance, Diameter of trap, Depth of seal Washbasin, 32mm, 75mm Washing machine, 40mm, 75mm

1.15 Sizes of branch pipes serving a single appliance should have at least the same diameter as the appliance trap (see Table 1). If a pipe serves more than one appliance, and is unventilated, the diameter should be at least size shown in Table 2.

Another alternative may be to use the toilet branch.

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

Ah .. ;-(

Ok, they'll have to look at that one closer then ...

Cheers Christian ..

T i m

Reply to
T i m

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:48:30 +0100, T i m wrote (in article ):

One other thought along these lines is that if the toilet pan has a horizontal soil pipe exit and then a 90 degree plastic adaptor to connect to the socket in the floor, whether one could fit a strap type boss onto said adaptor pipe at floor level.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Hmm, I've just phoned them and that sounds exactly what they have got?

Would there be any chance of fouling (where the 40mm joins the soil pipe) or would you fit it in at the top of the pipe?

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. They are gonna take some pictures and send me .. if they can figure out how to do *that* ?

Reply to
T i m

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:06:26 +0100, T i m wrote (in article ):

That I'm not sure about. it''s possible that there may be some building regulation rules that would kybosh this, because of minimum distance requirements. However, I believe that has more to do with risk of sucking out of traps than possible fouling. I was thinking aloud as much as anything on this one.

The adaptor that I pointed out yesterday has an internal design where the spigot of the pan adaptor projects into the centre of the fitting thus preventing that I assume.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Aren't there always .. ;-(

Isn't that what Durgo's are for?

Ah, yeah, that makes sense .. sorta engineered in ...hydrodynamics .. motions in motion .. etc .-(

All the best ..

T i m

>
Reply to
T i m

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:03:48 +0100, T i m wrote (in article ):

They are to let air into a soil pipe. However, I was trying to think of ways not to make the soil pipe installation massive.

I'm doing a cloakroom remodelling exercise at the moment, so hence the research. The original installation did not pay too much attention to pipe routing and hiding leaving lots of pipes, radiators etc. in view. I'm changing the toilet for a wall hung one which means that the soil pipe plus waste leading to it will be able to be totally concealed. I'm not taking installing a washing machine into account, but if your friends were open to a bit of reworking and a new toilet into the bargain, the whole job could be completed very neatly.

have a look at

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option is back to wall pans where the pan sits on the floor ut has a flat back to butt against an enclosed cistern.

In either case it becomes easy to hide the soil pipe and a lot of other plumbing into the bargain.

Just some more ideas that they might like to consider.

Reply to
Andy Hall

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