Making a pair of external wooden doors

[Osprey]

Some of you may know form my previous questions, I have been building a large =91barn style=92 outbuilding, one half is an open car port, other is to have a pair of doors fitted.

Roof is currently being tiled, in the next couple of weeks I want to build a pair of softwood =91garage=92 doors.

Height is 2085 (82=94) and width 3302 (130=94) for the pair ..~ 1650 each

Been getting my original thoughts together =85 as per this sketch:

an outer frame which is rebated to take a tongue & groove =91infill=92, I would make my own t&g using full length loose tongue splines, all well glued to each other, and into outer frame. I would horizontal brace (on inside) at hinge handing points, and fit a diagonal strut between the braces for racking strength =85 as per this pic: initial thoughts on sizes of timber to use, and how to do it are in the drawing interested in views on sizes of timbers, in particular the top/ bottom rails and the side stiles, joints etc.

Also not sure if cross brace should strut against horizontal support & verticals as shown, or horizontal only as I have seen in some carpentry books. See:

no real idea yet on how to joint in the horizontal braces ... seen dowels suggested in one book, other option I suppose could be a half lap joint ?

[BigWallop]

Roof is currently being tiled, in the next couple of weeks I want to build a pair of softwood ?garage? doors.

Height is 2085 (82?) and width 3302 (130?) for the pair ..~ 1650 each

Been getting my original thoughts together ? as per this sketch:

an outer frame which is rebated to take a tongue & groove ?infill?, I would make my own t&g using full length loose tongue splines, all well glued to each other, and into outer frame. I would horizontal brace (on inside) at hinge handing points, and fit a diagonal strut between the braces for racking strength ? as per this pic: initial thoughts on sizes of timber to use, and how to do it are in the drawing interested in views on sizes of timbers, in particular the top/ bottom rails and the side stiles, joints etc.

Also not sure if cross brace should strut against horizontal support & verticals as shown, or horizontal only as I have seen in some carpentry books. See:

no real idea yet on how to joint in the horizontal braces ... seen dowels suggested in one book, other option I suppose could be a half lap joint ?

What you have planned is nice. All your joints should be morticed, with pins or dowels through them for a bit of added strength. Glueing all the joints is not necessary, in my opinion, as the joints should be left to weather and move. Fixing them will cause cracking and splintering. If you want joint fills, use silicone, which allows the joints to expand and contract with the temperature variations. It might say weather-proof on the glue pot, but the timber itself isn't.

The cross bracing should be inset to both the horizontal and vertical timbers. Remember the 3 X 4 X 5 method of finding the angle. The hypotenuse is equal to the square of the other two sides. So find the right angle (3 X 3 = 9, 4 X 4 = 16, 9 + 16 = 25. 5 X 5 = 25). The corner of your bracing should be following the angle of cut. Which means the mortice from the horizontal into the vertical is extended by the mortice tongue of the brace lap. Which then means, more on the vertical than the horizontal to get a nice tight secure joint.

Might help explain it.

You might also think about a sacrificial timber on the bottom of the doors. Something that can be replaced when they start to rot through. It helps to have something that is easy to remove and replace instead of having to cut lumps off the doors to repair them. The bottoms of outside doors are notorious for collecting rising damp from the ground and splashing, and you might think paint is a good preventative, but it ain't. :-)

But your plans look good. They'll be nice when they're finished and hung.

What are you waiting on? Get on with it. LOL

[stuart noble]

Interesting idea except that water tends to collect at the bottom of the grooves, which would now presumably be above the sacrificial piece. A design which overcame that, and didn't look odd, would be a real bonus

[m1ss_wh1te]

When the ol' man constructed a similar door he put the tongue on the bottom rail and grooved the ends of the vertical T&G. That way avoiding a water trap at the bottom.

[Osprey]

not to sure what you mean by " ...The corner of your bracing should be following the angle of cut. Which means the mortice from the horizontal into the vertical is extended by the mortice tongue of the brace lap. Which then means, more on the vertical than the horizontal to get a nice tight secure joint. ..."

But follow the point that there should be more on the vertical than horiazontal. Did look at the link, but could not realte any joint there to what you were explaining ?

"

[Peter Taylor]

Great sketches! The diagonal braces should slope upward from the hanging edge to the opening edge. This puts them in compression as the door settles under its weight. You got it right in the first sketch looking from the outside, but on the inside drawings the braces slope the wrong way. :)

[Osprey]

fair comment ... you are right of course. I just used cut and paste & forgot to reverse ... I'll update the drawing

[fred]

Yep, Rick beat me to it.

My thoughts are that the diagonal brace looks a bit light as it will be the main member stopping the unsupported end of the door dropping. I know you'll get extra strength from the glued tongues but it would be nice if the frame was self supporting just with the braces.

[The Medway Handyman]

I made a pair of similar size around 15 - 20 years ago which are still going strong. If you can cut the timber square at the ends you can laminate the frame with half lap joints by just using the timber, no need to trench.

I hope the drawing makes things clear

made up an 'inner' frame with 119 x 18 and an 'outer' of 94 x 18 which gives a rebate of 25mm - and you don't need to cut that either. Overall thickness of frame is 36mm. Plenty of glue area, a few screws & Robert is your fathers brother. Quick & simple.

Filled in the middle with shiplap.

[BigWallop]

On the vertical, the cross brace is cut to the angle you need. The length needs to be longer so that the cross brace can be cut more into the side of the end, than directly on the end of the timber. Like a sideways on mortice on the end of the cross brace. But this has to be cut following the angle of the cross bracing timber.

Another way of putting it is. The mortice tongue of the horizontal is being extended down the vertical by the tongue of the cross brace. So both the horizontal and cross brace fit into the same long hole in the vertical timber.

On this page

You will see the where the tenon is being cut at right angles on the end of the timber, which is fine for the horizontal brace. The tenon you need on the cross brace has to be cut to follow the angle of the cross brace, so the angle on the end of the timber should match that angle that the final cross brace will be at. So the tenon pushes into the vertical timber, sideways.

It is difficult to explain. Hang on. I'll come down there and show you what I mean. :-) LOL

[Osprey]

what did you put in the frame, was it t&g or ply ?

[The Medway Handyman]

Shiplap T&G. I've looked and they arent braced, neither have they dropped or gone out of square in 15+ tears.