Low energy light bulbs - comparison

Like most people, I guess,I'm working on changing as many of my lamps to low energy. The great deep-thinking ones are thinking of banning the sale of filament lamps anyway. I made a spreadsheet that showed I was using about £250 a year on lights (big house). This should come down to about £80 with LE, after allowing for not being able to dim them.
Problem is I need to change several light fittings and buy new free-standing ones for reading etc. I don't want to do this until I know more about the the sizes, output and light colour of the bulbs. I've looked at various suppliers sites thrown up by Google, and the suppliers I use for electrical bits, but the data is very limited. Short of buying one of each lamp and testing them myself I'm not sure how to proceed. Its not like a thermostat or a piece of pipe. Lighting is an important part of the design of a room, so I want to get it right.
Has this topic been discussed on this ng lately? I've not browsed it for a while. The uk.d-i-y faq has no information like this. Does anyone know of another faq or info site?
If not would people be willing to share their findings? I would be happy to put together a spreadsheet and recordset of the findings if they appeared to be consistent and useful (maybe I'll regret saying that!). I could put this on my website with a link on the faq or it might go on the faq itself.
What do people think?
Peter Scott
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I'm sort of answering my own question. I have found three sites that have more detailed information on them including colour temperature and physical size: www.lightbulbs-direct.com www.bltdirect.com www.yourwelcome.co.uk
Der...
That'll teach me to check *again* on Google before I post! Anyway, I hope someone might find the addresses useful. I guess a faq is not needed?

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Peter Scott wrote:

I think a faq is needed, this is a common question. IME there are good, so-so and oh-no.
I've had good experiences with Osram, the toolstation ones were all so so but not the best light quality, Philips I've not been tempted to buy any more, and the one poundland one I bought out of curiosity was dire.
If you write something, here's a good place for it: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Special:Allpages
NT
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You have solved my problem at least:-)
Compact gs23 9 watt fluorescents are only available in warm white from my local outlets. We have a low ceiling in our kitchen and use recessed twin lamps. Even with 5 units SWMBO is not happy. I tried changing the opaque cover but she wasn't happy with that either. Cool white from the above should do it.
regards
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Tim Lamb

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On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:02:41 +0000, Peter Scott wrote:

I think the biggest problem will be the rather subjective comments people make. Some just don't like 'em, others are quite happy. What would be useful is something that tabulates the make/model, rated power & lumens output for each lamp and (in an ideal world) the real lumen ouput at switch on from cold, at 1, 2, 5 and 10 mins, the colour temperature once warm and if they start with or without a flicker. The latter half would require an awful lot of effort though and decent measuring kit.
The first bit could be done by looking at the packaging as most, if not all, lamps now have that info on them. There are a lot of lamps out there but if a few people spent just 5 or 10 mins in the supermarket/DIY Shed WHY making a note of the rating of all the lamps then sent that information to a central point for collation it wouldn't be to much for any single person to do, apart from collator! Mind you it wouldn't be that hard to have a web interface to allow people to input their findings.
--
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Dave Liquorice wrote:

You're assuming that manufacturers don't speak with forked tongues. In my experience, rated equivalence doesn't begin to come near that of a conventional incandescent bulb.
Sure, if you're prepared to dig though the small print you sometimes find weasel words mentioning that they're actually equivalent to "soft tone" bulbs but who the heck buys them?
Having said all that I was tempted by an offer in Tesco the other day (11W GE bulbs for 19p each). I then spent the next couple of hours converting a pendant in the hall to taking two of these bulbs. The output is almost acceptable now.
Tim
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On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:32:38 -0000, Tim Downie wrote:

I didn't say rated equivalence I said "rated power and lumens output" both are measurable using standardised units. If the maker was telling porkies and some one measured the lamps they would be in serious trouble.
I don't trust marketing puff and the equivalence stuff is just that. Real hard quantifiable facts I trust, if you can find 'em in the puff.

The ones I've looked at recently all have a little ratings section normally giving the voltage range, power consumption life and lumens. This applies to (branded) tungsten as well CFLs. Quite often on one of the box flaps.
--
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Dave Liquorice wrote:

we have, http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Special:Allpages and http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title ΟL_Lamps
NT
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On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:02:41 +0000 someone who may be Peter Scott

The sizes are stated in various places. They range from lamps no larger than GLS lamps to ones considerably larger. Some are also considerably heavier, which may be of concern in some fittings.
Output and light colour is to some extent a matter of personal prejudice. Some will swear blind that such lamps are dim, take too long to warm up, are no good for almost anything and the available figures on output and colour are all wrong. On the other hand some have been using such lamps since the 1980s, have now got them almost everywhere and don't see why some make a fuss about them.

There are search engines to answer that question.
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David Hansen, Edinburgh
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On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:58:08 +0000, David Hansen wrote:

I am one such person. Unless lights are to be switched on for hours at a time (such as my outside driveway lights) I think these energy saving light bulbs are a waste of time and money when used inside the home.
They're horrible things and do not give the same light as a normal bulb, despite what all the so called experts (aka marketing people) say.
If the light is only on for a an hour or so, (and often three minutes when you use the bog) the energy saving is minuscule - 40w or something? All the savings you'd get over a year or so are the equivalent of not having one or two baths. A paltry amount. Cut the central heating down a degree, stop using hairdryers so much etc, I am all for that. For a tiny few watts here and there for light bulbs? Waste of time.
My 2c, not to offend anyone elses opinions of course.
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Absolutely agree. This is just a sop for people to think that they are doing something, done as a diversion from the real issues that actually do make a difference but which are considered to be too hard.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Opinions are like ani. Everybody has one.
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On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:49:27 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall

Nice try, but your arguments remain as unconvincing as ever.

If energy saving light bulbs were the only thing people are being encouraged to do you would have a point. However, they are not the only thing people are being encouraged to do.
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David Hansen, Edinburgh
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On 2007-01-18 20:25:56 +0000, David Hansen

I'm not setting out to convince anyone.

.. and your point is?
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David Hansen wrote:

If you read my post on 'saving the planet' you would realise that the things people are being encouraged to do are the most trivially useless things: The REAL gains would come from boring things like wall and floor insulation, switching OFF street lights, wearing a jumper, working from home, and making petrol and diesel so expensive that local shops would become more cost effective than going to Tescos. Even not bathing or showering every day would make a significant contribution.
CFL's are a drop in a very big ocean.
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Peter Scott formulated on Thursday :

You should only consider using the low energy lamps where the light is turned on and left on for a sensible period of time - for all other uses ordinary filament lamps are best for both electrical economy and lamp replacement economy, initial cost and you get 100% light output as soon as switched on.
The low energy lamps just don't survive very long if frequently switched, filament lamps are much better for this type of use.
--

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Harry (M1BYT) (L)
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On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 10:04:03 GMT someone who may be Harry Bloomfield

That was the advice when such lamps came out, but things have moved on since then.

Ditto. I have had a low energy bulb in a toilet for I suppose getting on for a decade now. It is often just switched on for a few minutes. It was still working fine this morning.
Some designs of low energy bulb are better than others in this duty cycle, just like some designs of GLS bulb are.
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David Hansen, Edinburgh
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David Hansen wrote :

So the advantage of putting a relatively expensive low energy lamp in such a location would be what exactly? You do not save much if any energy if it is only turned on for a couple of minutes and the manufacturing process is not very green when compared to an ordinary cheap filament lamp.
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On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:06:36 GMT someone who may be Harry Bloomfield

Not having to replace the bulb so often. Reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

One will indeed only save a little energy over the space of a few minutes. However, little things add up over the years.

That would be a factor, if both types of bulb lasted for the same time and used the same energy.
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David Hansen, Edinburgh
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David Hansen wrote:

WTF does this mean exactly? Perhaps it's me, but it sounds like a pompous lot of old bollocks.
Wiki woo to one and all.
Des Kay xx
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Anita Palley wrote:

You dont even know what it means, yet you know its pompous and bollocks. You must be a youngun to think that makes sense.
NT
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