Loft conversion puzzle

[Broadback]

A friend of mine is selling her house. It has been advertised and "sold" as a four bedroom house. However her husband put a fifth bedroom in the loft. He did not obtain building approval of this. everything has been removed from the fifth "bedroom", it is now used solely for storage. 4 weeks into the selling process, with 2 planned weeks to go, the purchaser has expressed concern that the work in the attic may have weekend the structure. Surely this is should have been addressed by their surveyor? The council have now become involved, and are visiting the house this week to evaluate the work. My first thought is that the purchaser is trying to get the price reduced, though they emphatically deny this. If the attic is no longer being used as a bedroom what input can the council have?

[George]

I'd play their bluff...refuse to sell to the present buyer,their surveyor failed to point this out and its their responsibilty.

[Tim S]

Broadback coughed up some electrons that declared:

To address this point:

Depends what was done and whether it resulted in structural problems.

If the work involved boarding out the existing ceiling joists, and it just happened that they were strong enough to handle bedroom furniture, then I don't see a problem - it's just a boarded loft. I've seen that done in one house I looked at buying (they added a Velux window to boot) and it didn't raise any issues with me (good sized ceiling joists and short span). The room contained a bed, but the sellers were very clear that it was not rated as a habitable room and showed me what had been done (very little except the Velux window and some boarding out). They'd just taken a chance for their own purposes and it happened to work for them.

If, OTOH, the work involved removing supports to purlins, say, and replacing the support some other way, or worse, not bothering, this is likely to be a problem and the BCO is going to take a keen interest.

Can you elaborate on the details of the modifications?

Cheers

Tim

[Tim S]

George coughed up some electrons that declared:

I think we need more details. If the surveyor missed structural alterations leading to serious problems, he needs shooting anyway, but that may not change the outcome.

depends on what was done - think we need the extra information.

Cheers

Tim

[Ian]

The purchaser is entitled to do this. If there was no planning permission it's likely that a cowboy has done the work. Have you ever seen what happens when a loft conversion goes wrong! Think of a ladder with no support in the middle to stop the legs opening right out, it falls flat. Cielings could also fall down or dropp if there are no supports and some idiots use the loft joists (which are thinner) as a support for the new floor! I take it you would just accept this type of thing or allow guess work?

[John Rumm]

PP is rarely (or at least was - rules have changed now) required for loft conversions...

They do come under building regs though, and normally there would be a BCO involved to supervise.

[John Rumm]

You would have thought so!

Depends on why they were called. It might be that the work was done to an appropriate standard to count as a full loft conversion. In which case the owner could contact building control to obtain a regularisation certificate (a sort of "after the fact" completion cert). If this is the case then the room could count a a real 5th bedroom (assuming it has permanent access etc).

If the work was completed recently, and to a very poor standard then the council may want to try and request/encourage/enforce rectification. However there is only a relatively short window of time during which this is true IIUC.

[Broadback]

Extra ceiling joists were added before the area was boarded. What I do not understand is why the surveyor did not pick it up if it was a problem, also why the potential purchaser has waited this long before raising the matter. As it is I suspect it will not be possible to get the council in before the target date of the sale, which, in these difficult times may well mean the collapse of the chain.

[Hugo Nebula]

Not uncommon. What I think happens is that the surveyor, if it's not a drive-by valuation, will note that there is a room-in-the-roof, but won't make comment that it's satisfactory or not (surveyors reports are there to cover the surveyor's arse, no other reason).

The solicitors will ask the sellers for proof, by way of a completion certificate, that it is 'legitimate', often very close to the completion date. The sellers are, naturally, unable to produce said certificate, and then everybody goes into a flap instead of thinking about it rationally.

Regularisation applications are submitted the day before exchange of contracts, sometimes for jobs that don't have a hope in hell of complying, and then it's the Council's fault for not being able to produce a Regularisation Certificate on the day; "You're holding up my sale!".

[Tony Bryer]

In fairness, on a finished loft conversion [and other works too] it's almost impossible to know whether it is satisfactory or not, well not without a fair degree of opening up anyway.

[John Rumm]

unless you photograph every stage of construction I suppose...