LED downlighters/panels for 85mm holes in a lath and plaster ceiling

[nothanks]

The 12V converter on one of the bathroom lights has failed so this is the catalyst I need to change all 6 to LED. The existing holes are 85mm diameter and the ceiling is about 25mm thick; the outer bezel diameter of the existing lights is 102mm.

- Are most downlighters/panels likely to cope with a 25mm thick ceiling? (the specs I've found don't mention this aspect).

- Downlighter or panel? Any comments?

- The LED downlighters I've found so far seem to need much smaller cut-outs than 85mm - any experiences of the hole adapter plates?

- Any specific recommendations?

[Robin]

In my very limited experience only the ones where you can adjust the position of the spring - the more so if you also want the plaster to cope with the spring rather than crumble and fall. Some people claim you can cut slots on the inside of the ceiling for the springs but I suspect that's where plasterboard has been doubled-up rather than with lath and plaster.

[nothanks]

Yes, trying to put slots in L&P wouldn't work. I haven't been able to find any downlighters/panels with adjustable springs, but it feels like it should be possible to re-shape the springs. Although, I presume, fire-rated lights are designed to cope with 2x12mm PB (but finding the specs to confirm this has defeated me).

Another possibility might be to find a plastic or aluminium disc, about

120 diameter, cut a 57mm hole in it and stick it to the ceiling ... I'm sure I've seen "hole converters" but can't find anything suitable at the moment.

[GB]

Have a look at these:

They sit on the ceiling, rather than being recessed, and they have adjustable clips that will fit 85mm holes. My view is that they look good.

[ARW]

If you look for adjustable/tiltable spots the 85mm is a common size.

Hole adaptor plates are fine and the damage you might cause when taking the old 12V fittings down might help you.

No problem with a 25mm ceiling on most brands.

[Robin]

The Oracle of the North has spoken but FWLIW the problems I had with lath and plaster in the past were with butterfly springs on lights that didn't have 2 positions for them.

[Brian Gaff]

Sounds like you need flat panel lights, however, is there any real reason not to replace the duff transformer, or is the halogen or whatever just too inefficient, hot or generally uncool. Brian

[nothanks]

Thanks for the encouragement. I haven't found anything yet but I'll keep looking, but because one of them is above the shower enclosure I want it to be IP65-rated and that seems to rule-out the tiltable ones.

On reflection, hole adapter plates seem to be the best solution - any suggestions on where to buy?

[RJH]

I think they look fine - in the right home. Modern, low ceilings. Just can't see them in older houses like my traditional Victorian terrace.

Cheers, Rob

[Rob Morley]

8<------

I'd be inclined to make adaptors from a bit of hardboard or MDF - it's easy to cut neat circles with a chamfered edge using a router (and a holesaw for the hole in the middle). Paint with bathroom paint or some other moisture-resistant finish and slap them on with some "sticks like shit" or plasterboard adhesive. Or if you didn't want visible discs you could smallen the holes by fixing a tube of the right size in the middle and glooping poilyfilla or one-coat in the gap. It doesn't need to be very secure; how much do the lights weigh? And what is the consequence of them falling off? :-)

[ARW]

Ansell do IP65 downlights with an 85mm cut out.

if that helps.

It's that long ago sice I used an oversized cover I cannot give you a recommendation.

Obviously getting the old ones down without causing damage is a worry.

[Robin]

Bloody hell you're good: on top of that the manufacturer says they are suitable for ceilings from 10mm to 30mm.

[ARW]

But as a Yorkshireman I resented having to buy a 85mm hole cutter to cut out for a customers three own bought downlights:-)

So I just called back in today to see what make they were.

[Robin]

JOOI do you cut holes in lath and plaster for customers? I've only ever tackled it after soaking it from above with hardener and then gluing on thin plywood with a pre-cut guide. And even then felt the balls creeping up as the ceiling flexed.

[ARW]

Only with a brand new hole cutter on a fast speed and with a signed disclaimer that if it goes t*ts up that it is not my problem.

[nothanks]

Very helpful indeed. Thanks!

[nothanks]

In case this is of use to anyone else ... I was about to go with ARW's recommendation (thanks again, BTW) but had a "light bulb" moment. My existing lights are the eyeball type and I realised that I could remove the eyeball and retained the outer ring as a protection for the lath & plaster. I found a much smaller downlighter that fitted in the original outer ring and cut a ring of MDF (using 2 hole saws) to adapt the body diameter of the new lamp to the bore of the original outer ring and centre it. The result is excellent, and I can remove the downlighters without any damage to the L&P ceiling.

[alan_m]

They look OK in high ceiling Victorian terrace houses unless you are perhaps one of those people who likes dark brown furniture, butler sinks, and red flock wallpaper.

Its not so much the age of the property but more down to personal taste and perhaps the style of decoration.

Most of the light fittings in my 1908 terrace property are now the LED panel type - smaller utilitarian fittings in the hallway, larger utilitarian fittings in the kitchen and bathroom and something more "designer" (but reasonably cheap) in the main rooms. I will say that in a couple of rooms the 9 foot ceiling has come down a foot and been re-boarded - a lot easier than removing old artex on cracked lath and plaster ceiling.

[ARW]

OOI what downlighters did you buy to fit in the eyeball.

64mm hole skeleton downlights would be my guess.

[nothanks]

"Luceco F-ECO Fixed Fire Rated LED Downlight White 5W 450lm" from Sfix. I was thinking of using the "LAP Cosmoseco Fixed Fire Rated LED Downlight White 5.8W 450lm" but, although they were sold as IP65 they were labelled IP20 - and were more expensive.