Lead fittings

[Davao]

Hi all. I have a lead (Pb) water supply to an outside toilet in the back yard. I am going to remove the toilet and then to put a tap on the old lead supply pipe. My question is, can I use a compression adapter fitting to convert to copper? Also, I've seen B.E.S. have lead to copper connectors but they specify 'lead poundage' e=2Eg. Lead to Copper Part No. Description Unit Price Qty

10270 3/8" x 5 lb lead to 15 mm compression =A32.05

10271 1/2" x 6 lb lead to 15 mm compression =A32.76

10272 1/2" x 7 lb lead to 15 mm compression =A32.60

10273 3/4" x 9 lb lead to 22 mm compression =A34.73 The outer diameter of my lead pipe is about 3/4" but how can I tell which poundage my lead pipework is?

My house is a mid terrace built around 1910.

Thanks for your advice.

Arthur

[EricP]

All you have to do is solder a piece of 15mm copper pipe into the end of the lead pipe. It's very simple to do and permanent.

The proper technique would be to flair the lead pipe with a thing like a hardwood cone, but anything will do, even the handle of a tool. You only need to flair it about 1.5 centimetres in and then clean the inside of the pipe with wire wool. Clean the copper with wire wool as usual and then insert the copper into the lead. Heat the copper and solder it in to make a nice snug fit.

If you look at your gas meter you should find an example there.

[tony sayer]

In article , EricP writes

And remember that Lead is contained in solder and does err.. Melt.. so go easy with the blow lamp.

Course this skill was what the old timer plumbers used, join lead to lead, and a very nice job they used to make too!....

[Tim S]

And use the correct solder - "plumbers metal" or something like that? It's special because it remains in a plastic state for a tangible length of time so you can wipe the joint with your moleskin for the ultimate finish.

No, never done it, but I watched my Dad do one.

Cheers

Tim

[fred]

In article , Davao writes

In your place I cut out a section of the lead pipe and took it to the plumbers' merchant to get a matching fitting. As you have a 'live' setup you may not have that luxury.

The fitting dimension will be the internal pipe diameter so your 3/4" o/d pipe will defo not be the 3/4" 9lb, more likely the 3/8" but what the hey, when you can buy all 3 possible fittings for a tenner inc vat (& maybe postage) then get the lot and you know you will have the right one for the job when you start cutting the pipe.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You have to be a wee bit careful with this as lead melts at 327.5C. Best to use plumber's metal rather than most modern lead free solders.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Yup. Moleskin and tallow. ;-)

[EricP]

I first encountered lead pipe in my 1930's first house in 1974 when my stop tap under the sink gave up the ghost. One saturday evening I went out in the road to turn off the mains with a borrowed key and then indoors to blithely cut the lead pipe under the old stop tap. I had prepared the copper pipe and had all the stuff laid out for a quick and efficient job. Sadly I discovered the mains tap in the road had given up it's job about 1955, and a constant trickle of water from the cut lead pipe made soldering very interesting!

Ah, the good old days of DIY

[EricP]

Good point I missed, sorry. I have a good supply of lead solder. :))

[Mogweed]

Never done it with regard to domestic plumbing but as a cable jointer on Post Office Telephones I've wiped many a lead joint - and set fire to one or two other cables in the manholes during my time :o) Eee, them were't days :o)

Mogweed

[Bookworm]

. Sadly I discovered the mains tap in the road had

As an 'Old Plumber' we used to wipe joints with a pot of molten solder. Never used sissy blow lamps!

Trickling water up lead pipe? Stuff the bread from your sandwiches up the pipe and work bloody fast. It holds the water back just long enough to wipe the joint. Nowadays bloody fairy plumbers would use freezing kits. Eee when I were a lad!!!

[Guy King]

The message from tony sayer contains these words:

I remember marevelling at the wiped lead joints under the downstairs toilet's sink as a kid. That place was built late 50s - when did lead pipe go out?

[nightjar]

Lead pipe sizes are the bore, not the OD. The weight is lbs per sq ft, form which you can work out the wall thickness, if you really want to. A pipe that is 'about 3/4"' is probably 1/2" x 6lb, which comes out at around 0.7" OD. Pipe that is 1/2" x 7lb is nearer 7/8" OD.

Colin Bignell

[Bob Eager]

When I had to do it years ago, the plumbers' merchant sold me something called a 'Johnson coupling'. No idea if they are available or legal now!

Metal casting with a screwed cap on each end, hollow centre with flared ends inside the threaded part. Neoprene cone to fit over each pipe. Slide ends into fitting, do up caps to compress cones.

That was in 1981. It was still OK a few weeks ago (I only moved a few houses away, so still see the buyer).

[Ed Sirett]

And irregular/illegal. It is no longer permitted to do this on mains water pipe.

However complying with the law is more like an option to be taken into account when weighing up all aspects to a decision than an absolute matter. The chance of being caught being one of the inputs.

Which if it needs modifying will need to be replaced.

[Tim S]

Although lead solder is banned on potable water plumbing, hardly makes a lot of difference if it's being used to fix lead pipe ;-o

Cheers

Tim

[Ed Sirett]

I agree that the whole lead thing is OTT. However the rationale is that soldering the lead pipe destroys the patina which protects the water from contamination by the lead.