Laying concrete driveway ...

trying to evaluate all options for replacing the 2mm thick asphalt that calls itself a driveway in front of the garage (I suspect it was laid a few weeks before we viewed the property - it's lasted well at 11 years !).
I suspect that no matter what option finally gets decided (block paving, slabbing, or concrete) the first step will be to remove some earth, and lay some hardcore as a base.
The area is about 13' (4m) square.
Looking at mini digger hire rates, seems you can get a 0.8m3 or 1.5m3. Given I have never handled a digger before is there a trade off in ease of use and size ? Or should I get the biggest I can ? (It's on the front of the house, so no access issues).
Assuming I go down about 50cm, then we're talking about 8m3 of waste. Presumably a skip is needed ... these hippo bags aren't worth it ?
How much hardcore would be needed, and is a whacker plate essential ?
Assuming aesthetics aren't a priority, is there any reason not to finish off by calling a readymix supplier and getting them to dump <x> cubic metres and spend a happy afternoon with a plank of wood levelling it off ?
And the question that's most important ....how hard is it to look really serious and like it's a chore when playing with a mini digger ?
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On 13/05/2013 15:23, Jethro_uk wrote:

Yes - Sustainable Drainage Systems (SuDS) and Flood and Water Management Act 2010. You probably cannot legally lay a solid slab.
Of those options, I would go for block paving of some sort. As I did at the front of our house.
--
Rod

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!).

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+1 Block is a good option. You can lay it yourself. You will be good at it about the time you finish and it can be lifted for repairs etc. You will need a good base and lay them on sharp sand. Not as easy as you might think making a good job. Make sure you don't create any low puddle forming areas.
As for the porosity thing, it's bollocks, the joints fill up with crap and moss. But officialdom thrives on bollocks.
Think about water harvesting off your driveway.
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On Monday 13 May 2013 17:10 harry wrote in uk.d-i-y:

That is true. My block drive does not drain very well.
The only standing I have seen that does is unfinished compacted railway ballast. But that silts up and grows weeds. OTOH 6" of that topped with 1" of soil (half of which will end up betwene the chippings) and planted with grass seed would probably make a reasonable lawn that you could drive a car over without getting mud everywhere.
I am thinking about having 1 car space in blocked paving to make it easy to work on the car and the second space in grassed over ballast so when the car's not there, it's just lawn.
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On Monday 13 May 2013 16:02 polygonum wrote in uk.d-i-y:

You can if it slopes so as to drain onto porous ground in your property - or has drains the lead to a soakaway.
I have never heard of anyone getting busted for this to date - especially of replacing an existing impervious hard standing.
If I mod my drive, I do not intend to involve the council - though I will slope it back onto my property and stay within the spirit of the law.
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On 13/05/2013 16:02, polygonum wrote: ...

You can. However, if you do, it must be provided with a system of drainage leading to a rain garden or soak away.

It would certainly look better than a concrete slab.
Colin Bignell
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On 13/05/2013 16:02, polygonum wrote:

Cheap, easy & maintenance free option is to use 18mm gravel on top of compacted type 1 aggregate.
I did that at my last place and it was great.
Have a look at the paving expert site.
--
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wrote:

A bit of a late reply - but new folk next to us laid a concrete base (with rebar in it) some 20' x 10 ' for a garage - without planning permission of any kind. I know because he told me! ps we are in a flood plain area too. (sigh)
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On 13/05/2013 21:27, dave wrote:

Many garages don't need any planning permission - all to do with size, existing area of garden covered, original area of garden and distance from the house.
SteveW
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On Mon, 13 May 2013 21:27:34 +0100, dave wrote:

As long as you stay within the rules you don't need planning permission or building regs to lay a concrete base for an out building.
Come to that, there are plenty of houses around here having concrete driveways laid with fancy patterns in them and fancy colours.
I've had a quick scout around and I can't find anything that says you cannot lay concrete slab when repairing or replacing a driveway or when constructing a new one.
SuDS seems to be aimed at new developments and making sure that water run off is channelled into an area where it will soak into the ground.
The aim appears to be to replace the earlier system of having storm drains to take water from houses and roads straight to water courses with a system which makes sure that the water goes to a holding area where it is cleansed before going into ground water and/or water courses.
Local regulations are no doubt different depending on area and risk.
Cheers
Dave R
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On 14/05/2013 19:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:

"Planning permission
Specific rules apply for householders wanting to pave over their front gardens.
You will not need planning permission if a new or replacement driveway of any size uses permeable (or porous) surfacing which allows water to drain through, such as gravel, permeable concrete block paving or porous asphalt, or if the rainwater is directed to a lawn or border to drain naturally.
If the surface to be covered is more than five square metres planning permission will be needed for laying traditional, impermeable driveways that do not provide for the water to run to a permeable area."
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/pavingfrontgarden/
--
Rod

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Jethro_uk" wrote in message
trying to evaluate all options for replacing the 2mm thick asphalt that calls itself a driveway in front of the garage (I suspect it was laid a few weeks before we viewed the property - it's lasted well at 11 years !).
I suspect that no matter what option finally gets decided (block paving, slabbing, or concrete) the first step will be to remove some earth, and lay some hardcore as a base.
The area is about 13' (4m) square.
Looking at mini digger hire rates, seems you can get a 0.8m3 or 1.5m3. Given I have never handled a digger before is there a trade off in ease of use and size ? Or should I get the biggest I can ? (It's on the front of the house, so no access issues).
Assuming I go down about 50cm, then we're talking about 8m3 of waste. Presumably a skip is needed ... these hippo bags aren't worth it ?
How much hardcore would be needed, and is a whacker plate essential ?
Assuming aesthetics aren't a priority, is there any reason not to finish off by calling a readymix supplier and getting them to dump <x> cubic metres and spend a happy afternoon with a plank of wood levelling it off ?
And the question that's most important ....how hard is it to look really serious and like it's a chore when playing with a mini digger ?
Mini Digger... 5 tonne if you can afford it. Don't fart around with a smaller machine unless space is at a premium. Ask the hire company to demonstrate the machine PROPERLY or GAMI to do the digging for you if you're not confident using one.
Forget a skip, the space you have to put it is just as easily used by piling up the spoil and having a grab lorry remove it.
Check for services under where you're digging. It's not fun turfing up pipes or cables. (DAMHIKIJD!)
Check with local authority about suitable drainage. As Harry says solid slab might not be an option any more as run-off causes more problems.
4 to 6" of Hardcore would be essential in my opinion, tamped well with a Wacker or a Bomag roller.and perhaps steel reinforcing if you are going to slab lay wet concrete, obviously with a drain in the lowest point runoff won't be an issue. A "Soakaway" might be in order if you are serious about the concrete solution so when you got the digger there dig a hole for a plastic cage unless you're on clay, then there's little point unless you get lower than it (Burdens builders merchants have them) and "level" the run to the soakaway.
As for your last paragraph, mini diggers are NOT a toy, in inexperienced hands they can kill, and in your mind the picture of the preparation will look marvellous, but the result a lot less than what you would end up with. Hence why I suggest getting a proper demonstration and then if you aren't happy get a man in. When I was in plant hire I attended a scene for the HSE to try to explain the probable process of why a 3 tonne mini digger tipped sideways killing the user, a "Joe Public" who had used the machine for the first time. It wasn't pleasant. They are fun to use...... If you know their limits, have been properly trained and read the manual, also if you are adaptable and have patience.... A JCB they are not !
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On Monday 13 May 2013 15:23 Jethro_uk wrote in uk.d-i-y:

I can give you some numbers from when we helped a mate do one (and a pavement crossover) 20 years back.

6" of hardcore will be more than enough - Type 1 MOT or reclaimed railway ballast both work. Both should be whacked down with a vibro plate compactor - cheap to hire, bit like a lawnmower except the engine drives an eccentric mass to cause extreme vibration through a sole plate.
8" railway ballast goes down to about 6" on compacting. Not sure about Type 1 - probaly similar.
On top you could lay 1" sand then blocks or 4-6" concrete depending on load. 6" conceret was the Surrey County Council requiremnet for the pavement crossover - presumably to cope with lorries like dustcarts mounting it. Not sure any council every actually does tha but we did and the inspector was rather impressed.
I suspect 4" concrete on 6" hardcore would be more than enough for familay car loads.

When you have decided exactly how much to dig out, apply a 1.5 times decompaction ratio to the earth. ie if you dig out 8m2 of solid earth, you will need 12m2 of skip, assuming you compact it in the skip (by walking or rollering it as you go). That is what we noted.

Not for that volume. But if you are able to pile it, accessible from the road, a grab lorry might be cheaper - as it's all earth and hardcore. They will process it and sell the components rather than landfilling it.

as above.

That would work. Mixamate is a good solution too (what we did). Failry easy if he can park the lorry next to the hole and dump directly in. You will need 2-3 people to move it around, tamp and level, for reasonable comfort.
Make sure the edge boards are set firm and immovable as everyone will be jumping on them for an hour or two.

Pass. We were fit when we did ours (similar size) by hand. Filled 2 skips in a day ebtween two of us. I could not do that now!
--
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On 13/05/2013 15:23, Jethro_uk wrote:

Might that be 0.8 tonne, and 1.5 tonne, rather than m^3?
I have used a few different sizes, and found that bigger is generally better since they offer smoother control. The main benefit of the small ones is access to tight places, and working in small spaces (also they cost a bit less to hire).
Either will do the job though.

Go for the 1.5 in which case...

I think you are a factor of ten out... 4 x 4 x 0.05 = 0.8m^3
However allow a factor of around 1.5 "bulking" (i.e. what you dig out will occupy more space once dug!)
If you want to keep the same finished level as you have now, then you will need to go down somewhat deeper than that.
The minimum you will need for something that you can drive over will be block thickness + 40mm of bedding + 100mm of sub base. So going down 7 to 8 inches from the finish level.

Skip is easy. With a larger digger, you can dump a fair amount of spoil straight into it.

4 x 4 x 0.1 = 1.6m^3 ish, so order 3 tonnes. You will probably find the skip company can deliver it in the skip for you. (they tip it out where you want it before dropping the skip!)

Yes. If you hire at the same place as the digger it will save one set of delivery costs.

Other than its butt ugly, impervious, and not much cheaper, no ;-)

Not that hard - you just need to remind yourself not to grin too much ;-)
--
Cheers,

John.
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On 13/05/2013 18:03, John Rumm wrote:

Sorry, just re-read that, you said cm not mm!
500mm is likely to be too much unless its very poor ground.
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John.
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On 13/05/2013 18:03, John Rumm wrote:

On our flint-ridden clay, hardly any excavation beyond what was necessary for the thickness of the block and a few mm of sharp sand. Several years later, blocks unmoved (admittedly foot rather than vehicular).
Sand tamped down with a hand tamper, sand between blocks also. Ended up no worse than professionally done drive.
Sometimes doing it to "standard" is a bit OTT.
--
Rod

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On 13/05/2013 20:52, polygonum wrote:

Indeed - it pays to know the local soil conditions.
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John.
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On Mon, 13 May 2013 21:13:24 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

But foot not vehicles, very different.
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Cheers
Dave.
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On 14/05/2013 10:21, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Our drive, which was 'professionally' laid, was partially taken up a few months ago by water gas people. It definitely does not have the sub-base, etc., as described earlier and has been quite satisfactory for many years. It really is the nature of the ground. For any ordinary car, minimal sub-base is required here. 100 metres round the corner might be very different...
--
Rod

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polygonum wrote:

It also matters what the builders (or previous owners) got up to. When excavating for my drive, the contractor had to keep going down for quite a while in one spot, simply because he found a 40 year old dump of sand.
Chris
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