I was just sort of rambling that perhaps most uses of wall plugs will involve a larger size - fixing shelves etc. So all may not have small enough plugs and a suitable drill lying around.
IIRC, the standard size hole in a metal box is 4.5mm.
For a long time the smallest SDS drill I could find was 5mm (or even
5.5mm) but then ScrewFix suddenly added two ranges which had both 4mm and 4.5mm ones, ideal for yellow plugs.
So use a 4mm or 4.5mm drill and yellow plugs. No chance of blunting the masonry drill on the box then.
I fix lots of quite heavy stuff with 4mm screws in yellow plugs, 4mm screws are well strong enough (about 8 in old parlance) and they are much more secure in yellow plugs than in red ones.
On 25 Nov 2004 13:03:56 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@isbd.co.uk strung together this:
Well, 4.5mm is close to no.8, so that makes 4mm a bit over no.7. (I know you said about but for technical correctness in the archives of google I thought I'd better point it out)!
It's what I do. Just surmising why others might not.
Yup. Although as you pointed out in your other post, small SDS drills weren't easily available. So I standardised on plugs and screws for the smallest that was.
Another way is to fix a panel over the entire wall between the worktop and the wall cupboards, battened out to about 2"*. You can then fix as many outlets/switches/whatever to this and the wiring is concealed behind. In my kitchen I have 2 walls each with 4 double sockets and 2 appliance switches. I was able to fix all these to a ply panel *off* the wall, wire it all up and then screw the panel to the battens. It is then tiled or finished in whatever way you choose. We are very satisfied with the results giving ample (just!) outlets for the various toasters, grinders, kettles etc that accumulate there. I positioned standard flush white outlets as low as possible consistent with being higher than the majority of the likely occupiers of the worktop. In practice this turned out to be 315mm measured to the height of the 13A earth pin.
This scheme has the bonus that it is modifiable should you want to add any more outlets later.
Phil The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at
I suggested that earlier. Didn't meet with IMM's approval, so must be good.
Phil,
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, that has occurred to me - and is currently the favourite method. It does mean losing 2" or so of worktop depth, of course, but that's probably a price worth paying.
Bert
Or as I suggested make it a fillet - ie between cupboards and wall at approx 45 degrees, and fit the sockets into that. It could be made of Contiboard to match the units, or tiled to match the walls. That way, you'd not lose any worktop space.
Yes, we don't really miss that 2 inches. 'spose you could pull the worktop and units beneath forward by 2" to regain it though, layout permitting
Phil The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at
Really? I'm coming late to this thread, but don't see that. Has the thread had a change to the subject line? My newsreader treats that as a new thread.
It is. All my ideas are brilliant. :-)
Phil The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at
Phil,
The only drawback that occurred to me about moving the base units away from the wall is that some extra battening would presumably be required behind the sides of the units for the fixings - that is, assuming that the standard way of securing base units is by fixing the rear of the side panels to the wall - is that right?
Dave,
I liked your angled fillet idea (didn't I say so at the time? If not, my apologies) and it's still there in the list of possibilities.
Incidentally, the sample double socket I got from TLC is nicely made and seems perfectly usable. All the fixings are concealed: the bolts which hold the actual socket inserts into the stainless steel housing are hidden by the push-fitting black plastic surround - as someone surmised earlier.
Bert
Yes. Its usual to fix the side panels to the worktop here and there, as well. Or is that fix the worktop to the side panels? - anyway, you connect everything together with little plastic blocks; K-blocks, I think they are called.
A batten behind is not a bad thing anyway - you only have to make a few masonry plug holes into the wall, and can use wood screws to fix the side panel brackets to the batten.
I didn't have that option because the kitchen units follow the 3 sides of a U-shaped wall and the width of the connecting wall (which has the kitchen window with sink under) was the exact width of the units + standard worktop. If I had the extra 2" I would have done it.
Be careful - if you have worktop lights (highly recommended) under the cupboards, and pelmets at the front (~3" deep), you will have to stoop to see what you are doing when you plug anything into high level sockets.
Phil The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at
Phil,
Thanks for confirming about the fixings.
I'll be placing the sockets at a height where that won't need to happen. I'm having lights but no pelmet: I've seen a rather stylish range of lights in individual pyramidal housings, designed to go in the angle where the base of the wall unit meets the wall. The set of four lights plus transformer doesn't include any sort of switch, which strikes me as slightly odd; is it usual to connect them into the kitchen lighting circuit, so they come on when the room lights are switched on?
Bert
I prefer them on a separate switch. However, the switch might be advantageously placed adjacent to the ceiling lighting on a dual gang switch plate.
Christian.
Christian,
Thanks for that thought.
Bert
That's how I have done mine. Also the kitchen light is on 2-way switching, one by the back door and the other by the hall/kitchen door.
Phil The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at
That's good to know as I have to fit some later on. Saves research. ;-)
Dave,
The weakest part of the design seems to me that the whole shebang is fixed in place with just two screws, fitted through two fairly flimsy-looking metal tabs in the stainless steel housing. Someone earlier mentioned that these sockets are prone to wobble when fitted; I think this must be the reason. If the angle between mounting surfaces isn't exactly 90 degrees, a bit of judicious packing might be a good idea.
Bert
If they are not right up into the corner won't they simply do the same job as flush sockets, but stick out more? Or am I missing something? I thought they were meant for use under a shelf fitted above a workbench, where the user is sat down and so can see them.
Didn't someone else (andy?) say that putting them there causes reflections off the worktop? That does sound likely to me. I have mine as near the front as possible, just behind the pelmet.... err, just behind where the pelmet will be when I get round to fitting it!
Phil The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at
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