Kitchen lighting

[Pete Verdon]

My kitchen ceiling was damaged a while ago by various water leaks. I'm going to fix it very soon, and thought I should take the opportunity to sort out the lighting while I can still run the cables.

The current arrangement is a single 3-spot fitting in the centre of the room. This forces you to work in your own shadow at every single worktop, even the one that projects out into the middle.

Here's a picture of the room at present:

. It's taken from the doorway; the worktop bottom right is the one that sticks into the middle of the room, the brown line down the right edge of the picture is the side of a cupboard that's above it, on the wall opposite the main run of cupboards. The cooker is in the rightmost corner (not visible).

I'll be having the ceiling plastered smooth, and I'll be painting it white. So I quite like the idea of having some fluorescent tubes on top of the wall units in the picture, reflecting their light off the ceiling. My concern is that the distance between cupboard top and ceiling is not massive - is the light likely to spread properly across the room, or just be lighting up the edge above the cupboards?

I'd also fit a downlighter above the sticking-out worktop, and above the sink - the two main places where you're currently in your own shadow. I'd like to do the same for the cooker, but it has a big stainless hood above it and with someone stood in front I don't think there's anywhere to aim the light in. The hood does have a small light in so it's not vital. Finally, I'd put small strips under the cupboards to light up the main run of worktop.

Does all this seem reasonable? I have no experience on which to judge light levels - am I likely to be massively over- or under-lighting the room?

How would one typically wire cupboard-top fluoro tubes? An FCU on the wall and then flex to the tube holder sitting on the cupboard?

What sort of tube power should I pick? And what sort of technology for the downlighters?

Any other advice?

Cheers,

Pete

[Usenet Nutter]

This topic was discussed on 13th October . I have just removed a 3 x reflector fitting as I was fed up being in my own shadow .I have gone from fluorescent to ordinary bulb to halogen and the reflectors and have now gone back to fluoroescent . I fitted this one having seen it mentioned in that other thread .

's like chalk and cheese .I also have tubes under the cupboards which is great also.

[Tim W]

Pete Verdon wibbled on Thursday 29 October 2009 19:59

You can never have too much light in a kitchen - especially as the under cupboard strips can all be fluro strips so efficient.

I agree with your layout - it should work nicely.

That's one option. I'm going to joint the flex to the T+E above the ceiling in my case - but that is in a loft void, so guaranteed accessible. Another option is to stick a 5A socket (you know, the old round pin ones) just under the ceiling and plug the whole linked strip in (socket is on the lighting circuit of course). But an unfused FCU also on the lighting circuit would be fine.

One with a standard tube size like T5 (T4 can be weird), eg:

lengths according to each cupboard or run (allowing space for the connectors and the brightness should be fine.

Although the lamps I linked to can be switched at each point, it may be worth adding extra switches so you can bring the under-cupboard lights on seperately.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Yes, exactly what I do too.

I suggest the use of Klik lighting plugs and sockets. You want Klik S26 Architrave sockets mounted on the wall just above and just below your cupboards.

They are old T5 technology (the 4, 6, 8, 13W short tubes).

If you have standard 60cm wide units, the new T5 tubes are designed to exactly match these, i.e. they are multiples of 60cm long (1x, 2x, and 3x 60cm), minus a fixed amount (about 4cm) to allow for end-caps. (There are some other lengths too -- actually they are all designed to match modular ceiling panel sizes.)

For each size, there is a HO (high output) bright tube, and a HE (high efficiency) less bright tube. I usually fit the HO tubes on top of the cupboards, and always fit the HE tubes under cupboards. Make sure all the colours match - colour

835 would be my choice for a well lit kitchen.

For 3 cupboard's width, the HO is an 80W tube, and the HE is a 35W tube. For 1 cupboard's width, they're 24W and 14W respectively.

I don't buy fittings -- they're hard to find and usually too bulky. I just buy bare ballasts (they're all electronic) and the G5 endcaps, and if you're using loose endcaps, you need terry clips to hold the tubes. The HO tubes get very hot, so space them away from the surface.

For the under cupboard lights, you want them as far forward as possible so you aren't looking at the tube reflection in the middle of the worktop. I fix them to the back of the pelmet. For the over cupboard lighting, again you want them near the front rather than at the back. If you don't have a top pelmet, then push them back just far enough that the tubes are out of direct sight.

Yes, I switch the general lighting (above cupboard) separately from the task lighting (worktop and downlighters).

[Tim W]

Andrew Gabriel wibbled on Thursday 29 October 2009 21:48

Hmm Hager... Nice. I notice that they can be got from RS for surprisingly little dosh:

[Tim W]

Andrew Gabriel wibbled on Thursday 29 October 2009 21:48

Any pointers on where to get the new ones Andrew?

ie is this one?

would you do if you could mostly use those, but have an odd 40cm wide islanded cupboard that you'd like to match the lighting, such as I will have?

Sorry for being thick - too many choices, don't have a feel for this stuff; thought I was safe having rejected T4 in favour of T5!

[Pete Verdon]

Thanks for this, and the other advice.

I'm still unsure what sort of light I should be using for the downlighters. My impression is that this is in something of a state of flux. I guess 12v halogens are the "default", but should I be looking at something else as well?

Pete

[Jeweller]

We have 8 of these in a large kitchen cieling and they serve us well. However they are not ecologically friendly. I dislike flourescent tubes in the cieling. Are there any alternatives to 12v halogens (50watt) or does the industry consider this still to be 'work in progress'?

[Andrew Gabriel]

I would consider making LEDs ones, but commercial ones of the right colour and light output are still prohibitively expensive, so you are probably stuck with halogens for the time being.

The industry would tell you that you are using the wrong types of lights for general lighting.

Pete is intending to use them for task lighting, which is the right application. Hence he won't need anything like 50W nor anything like

8 of them.

[Andrew Gabriel]

I buy the lighting components separately. T5 electronic ballasts mainly from eBay. Have also used Farnell and RS, but choice very limited (and often no longer stocked). G5 lampholders and 5/8" terry clips from CPC (probably RS too). T5 tubes from mail order suppliers. Make sure you choose ones with the colour temperature specified, and all matching.

it is. The new T5's start from 14W, whereas the old ones go up to 13W. 14W is a HE tube (24W is the equivalent HO tube).

I have an example like this, where I've recessed a 21W 2D lamp into the top of the cupboard. It's recessed because the cupboard faces a step down into the kitchen from a slightly higher dining room, and if it was on top without being recessed (and without any cupboard top pelmets), the tube would be visible from the dining room. I'll dig out some pictures and put them up (probably not until next week).

You could use an 8W old type T5 tube.

When you start using multiple tube ranges, you will introduce the additional difficulty of matching tube colours across ranges.

T4 products are easier to find in the likes of B&Q, CPC, etc. Just beware that when a manufacturer goes to the wall (like Omicron seems to have), you will have to replace the fittings too, as T4 tube sizes and power ratings are not standardised.

The other thing I prefer about T5 are the availability of the HO (high output) tubes, which IME are better for general lighting, but would be too bright for the task lighting where HE (High Efficiency) tubes can be used instead.

It's worth mentioning T8 as well. T8 tubes and gear are easier to find, and if you can hide T8 tubes, there's no reason to avoid them. I tend to use T5 tubes because in my situation, the T5 tubes have been easier to hide.

[Tim W]

Andrew Gabriel wibbled on Saturday 31 October 2009 10:26

T4 products are easier to find in the likes of B&Q, CPC, etc.

That's really useful information - thank you for taking the time. Fortunately I haven't bought anything yet so I can use all this.

Cheers

Tim

[robert]

In message , Andrew Gabriel writes

I would be interested in your opinion of these

>> We have 8 of these in a large kitchen cieling and they serve us well.

[Andrew Gabriel]

That makes it unsuitable for any use that I can think of. You want same colour temperature as the other lights in the room. I recommended 3500K earlier in the thread for a kitchen. Living areas of a home usually use lower lighting levels, and 2700K is more appropriate in that case.

[<me9]

If I could find suitable lamps I'd go up to 3500K minimum.

Judging by what I see shining out of the windows, I think one or two of my neighbours are using lamps of about 6500K. I suspect they are sourced from abroad.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Trouble is, you need significantly higher lighting level (at least twice the illuminance level) at 3500K for it to appear natural. Doing that with 1-to-1 swap of filament lamp for a CFL retrofit is unlikely.

I see them too, and they are available here. I often wonder if the purchase was a mistake, or if deliberate, if they subsequently thought it was a good idea.

6000K requires 100-1000 times the illuminance level to look natural (lookup Kruithof curve), and I doubt they replaced one 100W lamp with 100 x 6000K retrofits!