Keeping a loft warm

Water expands when it freezes. Normally that's a problem with pipes because water is (almost) incompressible so there's nowhere else for the now-expanded water to go, so the pressure bears on the pipe surface which eventually gives way.

If there's some air in the pipes then the expanded water just compresses the air and everything is fine.

So if you can drain the pipes so there's air in them, the air should be a suitable buffer against water freezing. That is, as long as there are no pipe runs that remain full of water. Otherwise you might get a 'freezer spray' effect where a frozen ice plug prevents water behind it flowing away.

You could, I suppose, hook up an air compressor to the loft tank outlet to blow out any remaining water. Just be gentle as it might blow it out of unexpected places (the pipework is not intended to hold substantial pressure).

Theo

Yes, I worry particularly about the vertical pipe runs, they are the ones where water is unlikely to escape unaided, and they are well and truly embedded into the walls (1966 build, none of that poncey stud walling and plaster board !)

I was rather hoping when I opened the kitchen tap, and nice slug of water from the vertical run into the loft was going to fall out of the nozzle, but it was all a damp (no pun) squib.

The loft tank, and all the complex bits of plumbing is directly above the hot water tank, so I am planning to set the thermostat to 25C (?) and leave that permanently 'on'

If it is stuck in the 60's or 70's (and does not seem to have 'gas' central heating) then buyers will just play reverse poker with it until you drop the price or one of them blinks.

Sometimes it is better to just stick it in an auction and you will get your money within 30 days.

Someone has put in a offer, for a price I've accepted in principle and are planning to give it a major revamp and modernisation, but don't yet have a buyer for their current place, so there is hope........ !

Auction is worth considering though.....

It would only fall out if there was a way for air to get in to replace it. For example an empty loft tank exposing its outlet to the air.

Although won't the kitchen tap be on the mains? In which case there won't be a way for air to get in as it's a sealed mains-pressure system. Unless you undo some pipework to let air in.

I have no idea if tank stats go that low?

I presume it's an electric immersion if there's no central heating?

Theo

The downside of auction is regular people can't get mortgage finance. So it's only developer cash buyers who can afford to play that game, and you won't get as good a price as a residential sale.

(although rather depends on the market - if it's a £30k terrace in some ex-industrial town then a FTB might be able to buy it with savings, versus a £3m house in a fancy part of London, which most people don't have lying around)

Theo

Also, if you do that assume the system is going to end up full of legionella. Don't draw off any water with it in that state.

When recommisioning you'd have to heat the tank up to a high temperature for a while (60C+, higher kills it off quicker) and then run that through all the pipework to ensure it cooks anything that's been lurking in dead end taps/showers.

Theo

The kitchen tap will be connected directly to the incoming water main and thus can't possibly drain other internal plumbing. You might have more luck opening a tap over a washbasin which is more likely to be fed from the tank up in the roof.

That's a very good point. Actually looking at the Off Peak heating bill from last June/July, and using today's prices, it's about £3.50 a day for the hot water, so I'm inclined to just switch it back on at whatever it's currently set to (IIRC 50C) during cold snaps.

Give it blast at 60C+ for the 2-3 days leading up to a sale completing, as a moving in gift !

It's all a PITA, and you might remember it's also got the LW Teleswitch system, and across two electrical phases...

I flushed the loos a few times, and ran some bathroom cold taps to provoke running the water down, to provoke opening the loft tank inlet to the atmosphere, I might run the loft tank a bit lower and see what happens.....

Having, some 35 years ago, had Legionella, I wouldn't wish it on anybody. The effects can be long lasting.

It's been on the market since mid May, I've one viewing a week on average, and a couple of second viewings. I've reduced the price twice in that period. As said, someone is now interested, and made an offer, but there's a long way to go to be out of the woods with that one...

Difficult to price, my dad built it in 1966, and it's not a typical

What it really needs is someone to come along, and do what I did to the bungalow we're in now, I knocked ours down almost to slab level, and started again, and extended. We lived elsewhere for a year. Mum's place isn't anywhere as bad as our place was, it was grim, you could live there while repurposing.

Or (as it's on a large plot) knock it down, and totally 'repurpose' the plot.

Trace heating:

I had looked at that, it's a lot of work to install, but might work out cheaper if we have three months of weather below freezing point !

My father died in 1995. I. too, was worried about water pipes, so I fitted a froststat to bring the boiler on at +5. Unusually, the outside temperature dropped to -20 for a day or so. The cold water tank froze solid! Luckily it was made of lead and no leaks.

Storage heating set to keep the rooms at 8 - 10°C.

Depending on the size of the loft, up to three thermostatically-controlled ceramic element 0.5 - 1kW fan heaters on extension leads up there in different areas set to keep the loft just above freezing (no more than 5°C). This sort of thing run at half-power:

Two or three 12"+ oscillating fans could also be used up there to keep the air moving around, so the chances of any cold spots are low.

If only the heating was gas/oil fired CH, it would be a far more manageable situation.

Fortunately I only live 15 mins away, so I suspect I'll be looking at the weather forecasts, and turning up there a day in advance of any cold snap, to switch on the storage heaters.

To keep things in perspective, if I do end up spending £2k of my mum's money to heat the place all winter, that's only the same 10 days worth of her care home fees !

It's a big loft space, about 130 sq metres if you use the floor space measurements. But a 30 deg pitched roof, so that keeps the volume down. I had thought about fan heaters, but I can't relax with the idea of them up there unattended blasting away .

However, blowing cold air around, could have some mileage. I've got three of those 12 inch oscillating fans, that get stored away for the winter !

The storage heater thermostats have a mind of their own, but I could start with them set low, loft hatches open, hot water water tank switched on 'normally' ?

Just seems a little too cheap.

However, there's this ?

Not sure what the insurance company would say, when their loss adjuster turns up to the smouldering ruins of the house, and finds one of those fossilised into the burnt joists ? !