for =A3100 - don't know why Screwfix made that price up!)
I'm concerned the clutch (or whatever it is that lets the drive slip) isn't quite right. On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_ torque setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the chuck with my hand. On the drill setting, the clutch has no effect (i.e. the drill turns unless it can't - it doesn't intentionally slip). The gap between highest torque and no slip seems ridiculously large. I was using one of the hex bits to drive a bolt into a wall, and it didn't go in at all on the screw driver setting. It went in fine on the drill setting, but then nearly broke something at the end.
On both my previous drills, the top setting was far far stronger. On a cordless I borrowed there was still a slightly annoying gap between the top setting and the "drill" setting - but nothing like this! On my old mains drill, the range was continuous, which was ideal.
Is this new drill faulty, or is it a design fault, or is it just crap? It's possible, when changing gears or direction, to get the clutch stuck "open", but that's not what I'm talking about here. Even when it seems to be engaged, it doesn't seem to be as strong as I'd like.
The batteries don't seem to be that great. I posted a thread on here a few weeks back asking about cordless vs mains. As I drilled a 15mm bit through stone at the weekend, I was wishing for a mains drill - the cordless got through in the end, but it was so slow and kept stopping completely when the bit caught. (There wasn't quite room for my SDS). I thought the batteries were getting flat, but swapping to a freshly charged one only improved things for a few seconds.
It certainly doesn't sound right. On my Bosch 24v cordless, of similar price, there's no way you could slip the clutch with your hand on the highest setting.
That probably doesn't help you directly but it may add some support for your expectations not being unreasonable.
That is broken or at least not good enough, or you may have it on the highest speed which allows momentum to build to overrun the clutch. For screwdriving you should use speed #1 (at least for plasterboard, cement board, rubbishy pine).
I have a Makita 14.4V 6337D. I actually bought the body (=A332), NiMH battery (=A340), multi-charger (=A319) as odds-n-sods on Ebay as I disposed of other stuff. It is a Marathon motor drill which does mean it has very torque, and uses NiMH (or NiCad) batteries. It is a 2-speed drill and not a combi drill like the MXT Combi which is about =A345-55 for the body even on Ebay (and heavier).
Set to screws, gearbox speed 1. With clutch set to 5 it can be stopped with a firm grip, albeit giving your wrist a good snatch. With clutch set to 16 you can forget stopping it, it will actually break your wrist before you can get the trigger fully down.
The downside is under part-speed, very high resistance, the speed control can smoke and fail. I suspect that may be the run-in NiMH battery. So I have a "no speed control" for brickwork and a "do not abuse" for precise (cough!) woodwork. Makita would not entertain the warranty because I had bought on Ebay, no point shipping it around and just bought a replacement 6337D body for =A327 delivered in the recession.
Now, when I tried 12V non-marathon & 14.4V non-marathon with NiCad I did find them weedy - even compared to an old 9.6V NiCad which I suspect re 1998-2000 had a "marathon motor or its equivalent back them".
Batteries do take time to run-in and achieve a full charge, but I find
1.3Ah is that bit too small - 1.5Ah is noticeably better in that you can actually finish a job without finding the thing grinds to a halt. On the NiMH you have almost consistent fresh-charge power until the last 20secs, it really is that good. The downside is the self discharge is pretty dire.
If you do not need a Combi, buy a non-Combi cordless with occasional masonry (Bosch Multiconstruction bit) and a proper mains SDS for masonry because nothing matches it except the expensive cordless SDS drills (=A3200+).
Yes, it was on 1. It didn't make much difference (except when the clutch didn't engage at all and it slipped completely).
This is what I would expect!
I just phoned Makita to ask. The guy in the service department claimed that he could stop all their tools with his hand in screwdriver mode - it's just that some took more effort than others. ????
He asked what I was trying to do. I said 3" No. 10 screws into 4x2 (which I've tried, and it gives up). He said drill a proper pilot hole.
He pointed out that this only has 40Nm of torque, while the better model has 80Nm. But this is torque in drill mode - he couldn't say if it made any difference to the max torque in screw driver mode. He seemed to think I was a bit mad switching to drill mode to finish off the screw driving - me too, but I've rarely needed to before!
I was thinking that maybe I'd keep the cordless as a glorified screw driver, and get a mains drill for heavier jobs - but this one doesn't work as a glorified screw driver, so I think it's going to have to go back. :-(
btw, I really liked the keyless chuck. Far more convenient than any keyed chuck I've had, and it didn't slip - whereas a keyed chuck did in the same circumstances (though due to the lack of power the keyless didn't get thrashed as much, so it's not a totally fair comparison).
I think you're right - though there are times when a normal hammer drill seems like the right thing to use and SDS seems like overkill.
My 14.4v Makita couldn't be stopped on the highest torque setting - no way - unless the battery is flat.
Are you sure the batteries are charged properly? Sometimes with Makita chargers, if you insert a flatish battery the green light remains on & it won't charge. Unplug charger, remove battery, plug back in, insert battery & check the red light comes on.
> (but for £100 - don't know why Screwfix made that price up!)
Never thought to actually try this, but I just did on my Makita 8443D, and yes I can stop it on setting 16. Its got a fairly strong tug though at that setting. I would guess a 2" 10 gauge twinthread screw into softwood without a pilot hole would be about the limit of the clutch on the highest setting.
Nope, in drill or hammer mode it will twist your wrist off instead!
Without trying yours its hard to say. What is the longest screw you can drive on the max torque setting?
(note the clutch is really only there to protect smaller screws)
If you are pushing the envelope a bit, then the Makitas with their Maraton motor tend to punch somewhat harder. The 1.3Ah batts will need fairly frequent charging, but ought to still give decent performance.
Well having just managed it on the top of the range (as was) 18V marathon motor combi, I would expect he is right.
(if you think about how much torque you could apply with a screwdriver with a handle the size of the chuck on your drill, its going to be fairly substantial. So I would be surprised if you couldn't get pretty much any screwdriving clutch to slip (although don't try on a core drill clutch!))
I don't think mine would drive that on the clutch either. I would use drill mode to start with on large fastenings like that. (or more likely my impact driver these days)
Well it won't - the torque is limited by the clutch...
I get the feeling you might be expecting the clutch to do a slightly different job from what its intended to do. Its main virtue IME is in repeatable setting of smaller screws (say 1.5") to consistent depth quickly without worrying about over driving.
If you want something just for screw driving, then an impact driver would be another option. The 18V version will stick out over 150 Nm of torque! Either the screw goes in or something breaks (usually the screwdriving bit!)
Perhaps it depends on the jobs you do, but I find almost zero use for my mains "hammer" drills these days. I find the combi does pretty much everything apart from big deep holes in masonry, where the SDS comes out. (although my combi is the 80Nm one IIRC)
>>> (but for £100 - don't know why Screwfix made that price up!)
Thinking about it, I only really use my 14.4v Mak in either drill or hammer mode. I never really use the torque settings, the almost instant motor stop & using the drill in 'bursts' works for me.
I also have a Makita DF010DSE Pencil Drill Driver which has 21 torque settings where the motor actually 'stops' at the required setting. Use that mainly for smaller screws, flat pack assembly etc. The torque settings are so precise you can do up screws into plastic back boxes without cracking the plastic.
It's interesting the different answers I've got on this in the thread. I suppose it depends on your grip, whether you wear gloves, and the friction on the surface of the chuck. And, of course, the clutch itself.
I'll try some different sized screws straight into some 4x2 with no pilot hole. Usually I'd use a pilot hole (but not for the full length of the screw). The feeling I get is that I have higher torque settings on the old Focus(!) no-name combi I've borrowed - which seem ridiculous, except, as you say, maybe I've been mis-using it...
I guess that would get 3" screws in no problem?
The trick I used with the Focus drill was to do them all on max torque setting, which got them all but the last 3-5mm in, and then go back using the drill setting when the battery was getting a bit flat. They went all the way in and then the motor stopped with breaking anything. Obviously the right tool would have been better!
Yep, that's my dilemma - keep this one and resort to the SDS sooner, get something like this pair...
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maybe a mains drill, or get one of the far better (and expensive) ones like yours...
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think this time last year I was happy with my 20 year old Black and Decker mains drill. That was before I had an SDS and borrowed a cordless. Now I realise the old adage "a bad workman blames his tools" is crap - while a good workman can probably do the job with almost anything, decent tools make a job 10x easier and sometimes 50x quicker!
Yup. on mine I can hold it with bare hands, but would not do it as an exercise in comfort IYSWIM. I am sure other clutches are "different", but would not class one that lets go later as necessarily better.
To my mind, what sets aside a good clutch is repeatability. One that can deliver the same torque each time.
Not misusing as such - but using in a circumstance where you don't really need a clutch. You are unlikely to overdrive a big heavy screw - especially if your drill has a decent speed controller.
Perhaps that point is worth keeping in mind. Budget cordless tools tend to often have poor batts and speed controllers, that usually means you can't drive a stiff fastening on anything other than full speed since you won't get the torque. The better ones can usually develop enough torque at lower speeds to do the job - hence you can use the speed control with more finesse for setting the screw depth. Lots of folks it seem almost ignore the speed control and go for "pulsed" full speed to modulate the output - something you need to do on the poorer stuff, but is not so necessary on better tools where you can "slow down" when you get close to finishing (although if the pulsed technique works for you then no reason not to carry on!).
Yup, but then so will your combi by the sounds of it - just not with the clutch engaged.
Impact drivers have no clutch anyway and are somewhat more brutal than a constant torque drill. They will carry on winding a 3" screw into softwood until the bit won't reach the screw head anymore! For preceise depth setting on screws you need to get very good at letting go of the trigger at the right time, or use the speed control to tap it home.
The particular attraction is they take less physical effort to use. You don't need the same pressure on the drill to prevent cam out, and the machines are smaller and lighter for a given voltage.
More on them here:
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The trick I used with the Focus drill was to do them all on max torque
That just sounds like you were making unnecessary work for yourself. No point using the clutch at all if it not going to get the job completed and you need to change modes into the mode that you could have started off in the first place and finished the job in one hit. ;-)
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I am tempted by those myself - although not as a replacement of my current ones but an addition. I can see they would be very nice for many of the lighter jobs about the house. The ID can produce 90Nm of torque apparently. The DD come in with only something like 27 IIRC. Which I suppose is not surprising with the lower voltage.
(to an extent, the more different sized drills/drivers etc you have - the more specialised each becomes!)
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that's the "next years model" on from mine. It has three speeds rather than 2. I know someone with the 14.4V version of that. The addition of the lower gear adds even more maximum torque (mine is 2 speed 0 - 450 and 0 - 1400, the MXT has a 0 - 300 low gear). Might be worth seeing how much you can get one "body only" and use your existing batts if you are really keen to change.
It also sounds like it would be handy for you to try various different versions before doing much else to find one that handles the way you want. Don't know if you live near enough anyone here to go have a play?
Yup... as a retired builder friend of mine says - anyone can do it with the tools! (I have seen him produce the required bit of missing skirting moulding from an offcut of softwood, using a jack saw, claw hammer, and sandpaper!)
Funny you should say that. Today I was using 10g 2.5" single thread into floorboards with a pilot hole, and at the top setting, when the screw hit the last cm (i.e. the bit where the pilot hole ended) the clutch slipped.
I swapped back to the focus DIY model, and at setting 19 (out of 21) it did the job perfectly. Screws all the way in, without jumping or snapping, every time.
I wasn't sure before, but now I am: This thing's got to go back!!!
I recalled this thread t'other day when I was using a 12V Makita drill. The job was re-laying chipboard flooring in the loft, starting the screw manually to pick up the existing thread in the chipboard and, with care, the thread in the joist. One or two missed the hole in the joist but the drill still drove them in. The screws are ordinary Goldscrew, 60mmx5mm, so quite big for a 12V drill. For just driving them into the same holes, setting was 14; 16 managed the new thread.
Does look as if yours isn't up to spec. - or I need to complain about mine!
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