...so make sure it's firmly attached before working on replacing the valve in a cistern in the loft.
And oh yes, don't put your hand instinctively in aforementioned cistern in at attempt to retrieve said live implement.
Rob.
LOL... What happened?
A couple of months back, climbing up into my brothers loft which I was not familiar with, his wife hands me a torch. I think to myself, "I'll just prop it on that box inside the loft so it provides light whilst I climb up", prompty followed by a plop and splash as it sinks to the bottom of what turned out to be not a box, but the central heating header tank with no lid. Fortunately it was a waterproof rubber torch, and as it was still on, it was easy to fish out.
Ouch!!!!! I bet you don't do that again. :-) Live and learn mate, live and learn,eh? LOL
LOL!
It sounds like you almost nominated yourself for a Darwin Award.
ouch...
The best torch story has to be from ER series 2.
"Dr Benton, I got the tourch out, it still works"
Rick
Oh, and you might want to get round to putting an RCD in the consumer unit...
Christian.
Fortunately no damage to me apart from going "stupid, stupid, stupid". I was lucky. The jam jar type glass cover didn't survive too well though - for some reason plunging a hot piece of glass into water caused it to shatter. Of course, I then had the fun (not) and slight dangerous task of seeing if any glass was in the tank.
Rob.
There is an RCD in there... It was strange that neither this nor the fuse in the plug blew. It wasn't in the water very long at all, possibly out of the water as the glass covered shattered.
Cheers, Rob.
More annoying is that I did think to myself:
"I wonder if I should go and get a hammer & nail to I can make a hook in the roof beam onto which to firmly hook the lamp?"
Guess what my decision was considering this involved going down the loft ladder and into the cellar...
Cheers, Rob.
Sounds like lamp and water mixed successsfully this time... fortunately.
Somewhere in here
NT
Well, let's assume the glass envelope of the bulb - sorry, True Sparkies, Lamp ;-) - shattered on contact with the cold water. Air, including oxygen, rushes in to displace the parly-evacuated, partly-inert-gaseous filled envelope; the thin little filament, even if survived the mechanical shock, now burns up PDQ. A few tens of milliseconds later, you've go the two support wires connected to N and L now in contact with the water. Maybe the fuse built into the base of the bulb blew when the filament-burning surge happened: if so, only the flex core entering the inspection lamp is still live, and the section up to where the fuse was. Let's say, though, that the bulb-base fuse is intact.
Now, water's not all that conductive. Soft water a little less than hard (tho' 'softness' is really about concentration of calcium ions specifically, so I may be speculating out of my backside in believing 'soft' water's less conductive than 'hard'; for sure distilled is less conductive than tap, and artificially-softened at least as conductive as incoming hard; but, uncharacteristically, I digress).
So, in this setup, what's to blow a fuse or trip an RCD? There's a smallish current flowing between the two support wires now (AC, so no sustained electrolysis to speak of ;-). If the cistern's plastic, there's no path to earth through its body; maybe there's an incoming copper pipe, but distance to that from the L wire is much greater than to the adjacent N wire, so very little current flows that way - so your RCD stays untripped. If the inspection lamp has an earthed metal cage, you'd get a bit more L-to-E flow, but still dominated by the L-to-N one as it's still a lot closer from one support wire to t'other than to the cage. (If it's an old iron tank, the moment the lamp rolls so that the exposed L touches the tank surface, a big L-E fault current would flow, tripping the RCD fer-sure and possibly the circuit RCD.)
Now, what happens when you pick it up? The worst case for your safety is that one part of you is well earthed: not that likely in a boarded loft, but if you're leaning against a copper pipe or old iron tank, things aren't looking good. If you pick it up by the cable - no probs; by the cage (assuming it's still earthed) - no probs. Only if you somehow pick it up by the support wire that's connected to the L are you in serious trouble. If you pick it up by both wires, you'd get your fingertips badly burnt, but with the great majority of current flowing only there, you'd survive. If you're lucky within this unlucky scenario, you push the two support wires together as you grab the remains of your lamp - a muted pop (we're under water) and the plug fuse and/or circuit MCB trip. It takes either great skillful skill, or a moment's attention from the twin gods Murfea and Sodde, to end up holding only a L-connected bit of metal, *and* be well-earthed.
So, glad to hear you're still with us! Next time you *will* fix up that hanging nail first, won't you! (Me, I'd put up a small cuphook, rather'n a nail. Then, leaving the loft, I'd probably catch my shirt on it, lose my footing, and end up with one foot through the ceiling, one out of the loft hatch, and screaming blue murder having had the in-between bits slammed into the joist now between Leg A and Leg B. While the rest of the family pee themselves laughing...)
Stefek
Yes, my parents had a leak above the bathroom (washing machine upstairs can be a mixed blessing). The water came through the central light and the pull-cord switch, as it always does, and my mum had the forethought to switch off the lighting circuit. After the water dried, she switched it back on and everything was OK, but she avoided using the bathroom light. I called round a few days later to inspect the damage. At a casual glance, it looked OK, so I pulled the cord and the light came on. About
5 seconds later, it starts flashing and buzzing, so quickly switch it off again. Now it's one of these hemispherical bowls covering a horizontally mounted lamp. I did think to myself before switching on, "no that doesn't look like it's got any water in it". However, I failed to take into account that it actually looks exactly the same if it's completely full to the brim with water, which indeed it was. The whole lamp, lampholder and wiring was completely under the water surface. Anyway, after taking it all apart and drying out, there was no sign of arcing or burning, and it's worked OK ever since.On Tue, 31 May 2005 11:57:19 +0100, "Christian McArdle" strung together this:
Chances are that wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference. (which it didn't, just read the replies to this) Most hand held inspection lamps are double insulated, unless it's a really expensive and\or old one, so unless there happened to be a very good earth path from the water in the tank then the RCD would not have operated. (Which it didn't).
I think Stefek said what I just said, but as per usual, he went for the detailed technical response!
It would have made a difference to the severity and length of the shock, though, had it been bad enough to warrant it, even though it might not have the chance to trip before that point.
Christian.
What sensible people do is put up a fixed light over the cold-water tanks, another near the hatch, both switchable from the hatch, and train other members of the household that if the light is switched on up in the loft *don't take the ladder away*
Owain
Yeah, that's me. As a good friend's whiteboard used to remind us all: 'Confuse a man for a day, and he'll be baffled for a day. Teach him to confuse himself, and he'll be bewildered for a lifetime.'
Such are the hazards of DIY!
Rob.
I was alone at the time apart from the cat, but that's another story...
Cat (Layla) managed to climb up the loft ladder out of that infamous curiosity whilst I was not around. Then realised she was too scared to climb back down (anyone who has done any climbing will testify that going up is far easier than going down). No amount of leaving tuna on the second rung down would entice her down indicating that she was indeed too scared.
An attempt to pick up scared cat to get cat and myself back down through a small loft hatch was soon aborted. I still have the scratches...
Borrowed cat basket from neighbour, stick tuna in end, cat goes in, close door, manhandle basket down loft ladder stairs vertically and bob's your uncle. That's how to do it!
And this isn't even my cat!
Rob.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.