Ideal electrical systems (just idle curiosity)

The energy lost is represented by the "S" shaped area on the graph. Also known as "iron losses" in motors and transformers. But even if there's no iron, energy is taken to establish/reverse the magnetic field.

With DC it takes energy to establish a magnetic field but none to maintian it (neglecting resitance losses) You get the energy back on disconnection.

Car ignition coil is a case.

Reply to
harryagain
Loading thread data ...

But not all of it.

Reply to
harryagain

The resistance losses vary with load. Other losses are constant.

Reply to
harryagain

They are already available.

formatting link

Reply to
harryagain

Iron losses are proportional to frequency.

Reply to
harryagain

All other things being equal, the only reason for not having widespread electricity distribution in 2014 would be if the filament lamp had never been invented, which was the original 'killer app' to make public electricity supply a viable business. The problem before that was "sub-dividing the electric light", as in the 19th century, before filament lamps were invented, only arc lamps were available, and these were only practical for large outputs, so tended to be used with local generators at about 100v DC, 70v being needed to maintain an arc in air, the rest for the regulating resistance to limit the current.

Eventually discharge lamps (mercury, sodium, etc) would be developed, but not in domestic sizes, these are more efficient on AC supplies, allowing the use of transformer ballasts, so things would have panned out at 440v 50Hz three-phase, for induction motors in industry, stepping down to 110v single-phase for power tools and discharge lighting, supplied by local generation from natural gas or diesel engines.

In the UK and other countries with natural gas supplies, domestic lighting would be by gas mantles, with no general distribution of electricity, instead household thermo-electric generators could be used for powering electronic equipment at 50v DC, so avoiding the need for shock protection measures, and gas for everything else, with LPG cartridges for portable appliances such as irons, places that did not have gas supplies could use kerosene or LPG cylinders.

What drivel.

In the UK three hundred years ago the rich used beeswax candles The poor used "dips", animal fat with rush wicks. Whale and seal oil was also used. Coal gas was invented here and became unversal for lighting. There were initially no mantles, the gas was so impure, the flame was luminous. Heating was by wood and then coal and coke, mostly open fires. Gas fires were uncommon. Most houses only had one room heated.

Electricity when it came was local, sometimes from local mines and factories. The national grid was first started in the 1920s. There was AC, DC and a wide range of voltages. Even in the 1960s light switches were DC capable and the voltages had only just been made standard 240v.

Natural gas was only discovered in the 1960s and took some years to be widely available.

Reply to
harryagain

Presumably you mean the old National Control, close to Bankside but round the corner in the concrete bunker of Sumner Street / Park Street. That is almost ancient history, they moved to the 'new place' well outside London in 1996. Essentially everything now on very large screen monitors and consolidated to just one level of control (nothing remaining at regional level) and just an on site local backup and a bloke on a phone when all else fails.

Not sure how national control would ever be aware of any real time phase state as the data supplied to them from across the UK and also from Scotland is just digitised Voltage and Current Transformer values with a local refresh rate in the order of seconds to tens of seconds, the transfer protocol used does not permit any element of time / data synchronisation between sites or against any time standard for these digitised analogue values.

While it's clearly nowhere near ideal a 60GW UK grid could be kept in sync with what is around a 600GW Euro network with 3GW of AC interconnects, it wouldn't do anything else in normal circumstances, it's a bit of wire just like the rest of the system and with a series reactor and appropriate generator governor response it would remove any dumbell effect, but what happens during a fault in on or around the interconnects and the recovery post fault is, as always, more of an issue. It still has the potential to go t*ts up very fast. A DC interconnect remains by far the best solution for the UK to Europe despite the complexity.

Reply to
The Other Mike

Just design a slightly enlarged version of one of these :)

formatting link

Reply to
The Other Mike

None in the UK, there will be an undersea / underground 600kV DC link in the next couple of years down the West Coast. No perching ostriches allowed.

Reply to
The Other Mike

Aluminium wound over steel is an older conductor design method commonly used for supergrid installations until the late 1980's in the UK but these are often a bottleneck on the network, so as they eventually succumb to corrosion and internal failure they are not always being replaced like for like. During many refurbs and upgrades they now use either an all aluminium design or aluminium over a loose steel core (termed a gap conductor), with grease filling the gap between the two.

There are developments in the pipeline for aluminium conductors over a composite core, possible first large scale use in the UK would be on the route of the upgraded 132kV to 400kV route for Hinkley Point C

Reply to
The Other Mike

[blank lines and other cockups caused by Mr. Paste using google groups, fixed] [long and irrelevant post by harry, deleted]

The point of your post was *what*, precisely, harry?

Reply to
Tim Streater

He's finally discovered how to cut and paste?

His next great discovery will be the computer's "off" switch, with any luck.

(Hint: It's not the big red one round the back any more.)

Reply to
John Williamson

Foreign ones maybe - those helicopter youtube vids are not British AFAIK.

Reply to
Tim Watts

DC of course would not be an issue on overhead lines.

There would be a small spark as some charge transferred to the helicopter then that would be it - until it landed of course, then the process would reverse.

Reply to
Tim Watts

Sounds likely...

Anyone who doubts the field strength, take a 4-6ft fluorescent tube and hold it upright whilst standing under a grid line set, in the dark.

Perhaps not recommended, but Tomorrow's World did it and the tube does glow - there's that many V/m

Reply to
Tim Watts

I slipped on some damp grass on a slope cutting the lawn last night. The humidity was high and the dew arrived early - I thought the grass was dry and wore inappropriate shoes (DMs with no tread left!).

So off I went to A&E this morning to check I had not broken my ankle (it is possible to break an ankle and think its a bad sprain).

Fortunately not, so here I lie with my foot and a cushion and an ice pack down my sock hoping it will not bugger up my holiday in 2 weeks!

So that probably went down as "lawnmower accident".

So when DIY lawn mowing is banned next year, blame me!

Reply to
Tim Watts

Yes - my mate worked there - still works at Nat Grid control.

I did wonder that. I guess there must have been a dedicated set of sensors just for that?

I heard about it as it went loopy and started wobbling (1995 ish) causing some concern on the control desk, until my mate found out it was a dodgy photocopier upsetting the local instrument.

The rest of the time he seemed to spend fixing the Dinowig instructor panel.

Reply to
Tim Watts

My dear chap, if all but sit-on mowers get banned as a result, I shall put up a statue to you!

Reply to
Tim Streater

So injuries include 'bruising.' Let me guess, the survey was during work hours, when half the people asked were mentally ill. Surprisingly enough 50% of them were so bored that they said yes if asked if any scenario happened to them.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

Some (obviously foreign) retard was drivelling on some crap about the history of domestic energy in the UK

Reply to
harryagain

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.