Can the innards (ball) be damaged by power washing?
Mate has a system where the heating pipe gets hot even though (he claims) he has removed the motor head and manually turned the valve to Hot Water to test it.
JohnP formulated the question :
As in power flushing the system? Probably not, there shouldn't be enough pressure to do damage, unless the valve was already failing.
Confused question, confused answer....
There is only a few degrees of movement between a port closed and partially open, setting it manually might not be accurate enough to completely stop the flow. Some valves (MOMO) are only intended to be rotated in one direction and can be damaged by the 'wipers' being forced the wrong way.
Why is he manually turning the valve, rather than letting the actuator head move it to the correct positions?
I wouldn't have thought 'damaged' unless the rubber bally type and it on it's last legs but it's possible some debris has been forced across the port, preventing the valve shutting completely and hence what he is seeing?
Or if a ball type, turned the ball on it's spindle (for the first time in years) and now it's sitting on a ridge?
Cheers, T i m
not usually.
You may get a small amount of let-by even with a working valve - so the "other" pipe may get a bit warm.
There may be a bit of crud in the valve preventing it seating fully. Or the shaft may be stiff preventing it moving properly, both of which could allow more flow.
Also, without the head on, there is nothing to stop the actuator being pushed about by water pressure.
Harry Bloomfield, Esq. snipped-for-privacy@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote in news:ri2jit$olu$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:
Trying to fault find - Rads heating up when only HW is called for.
Trying to pin down if the problem is in the motor head or the valve body.
JohnP was thinking very hard :
Most often, the motor head/actuator at fault.
Turn heating stat to max, HW stat to max, then alternatively enable/diable CH then HW - the actuator should move to the required position and boiler and pump should strike up.
Harry Bloomfield, Esq. snipped-for-privacy@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote in news:ri2sv4$4av$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:
That is happening apparently - but rads are getting heat.
Can it be moved by hand? If not, it is either seized or jammed. Cleaning is an option but if it is old, replacement is probably best.
If it moves by hand, then either the head (probably the motor) has failed or it is CH and HW demand from the controller.
The heads do fail. Usually they are easy to change, as are the valves- provided you have isolation taps.
At the risk of stating the obvious, the CH is off rather the the thermostat just being set low. It couldn?t be that the recent cooler weather has caused the CH to come on. We just set our room stat low in the summer. If we had a cold day, the heating would come on.
on 25/08/2020, JohnP supposed :
The only thing left then, is the valve passing water when it should not. Time for a new valve methinks.
I was about to post the same possibility as this happened on a 3-port valve valve I had some years ago.
When I took it apart there was a well defined ridge on the ball. Some valves use flappers where this can't happen. I suspect the OP's friend is made by Honeywell.
Where you can get the ball gubbins separately.
I did buy a new valve for a neighbours CH system for similar symptoms (as the OP) but didn't do it at the time as we turned the boiler off and she used the immersion instead. It won't be a problem again till next summer and there is a possibility she's moving, it's something I'd rather not volunteer for. ;-)
Can they still not get stuff caught under the flap though?
That would be my bet, given the 'removed the motor head and manually turned the valve to Hot Water' statement. I'm not sure if 'other systems' can be operated 'manually' or not?
I think I got the complete valve with actuator and initially swapped the head (the old one had two faulty micro switches) and whilst that worked more logically, still allows some CH leak-past. If I do it I'll first see if I can just change the valve mech (I should be able to, if not, I have the complete valve assy).
Cheers, T i m
It happens that Fredxx formulated :
Not all 3-ports use a ball, the MOMO type use a 'wiper' seal which means they should only be rotated in one direction.
If it's a removable head type, remove head & set manually in each direction. If it doesn't seal either way you need a new base section, if it does you need a new motorised section or to repair what's going wrong up there. Sometimes they just need a new motor due to a stripped gear - avoid cheap chinese replacements that don't last. Sometimes they need a new microswitch.
NT
Given the drain down required it's not a quick fix.
Yes they can, but a formed ridge will assist in sealing and less likely to leak as the valve will always seat in the some position. Unlike a ball that is allowed to rotate.
A Drayton one that is/was used by British Gas has various levels of getting parts, from a whole unit to the head to just the motor.
Since you have to drain down for changing this I would be tempted to at least change the water side stuff.
When money was tight I did make the ball out of silicone rubber as a temporary fix. It was temporary as the resilience of the rubber created a water hammer effect at high pump speeds.
Fredxx expressed precisely :
You can buy replacement synchro motors for all of the actuators, not just Drayton. Replacement micro switches are also easily sourced, they are a common part.
The only parts not replaceable in an actuator are the body and any gears.
Fredxx has brought this to us :
In a two story home, that only means a partial draining down, to below the level of the 3-port - which is often on the first floor.
Not that big a task, I swapped my valve and actuator last year in a couple of hours.
Certainly not as quick as being able to change just the head, as you were able on her model (but not possible on all (of the Honeywell valves)).
I have already have some flushing chemicals and will get some inhibitor nearer the time (if / when etc).
Even with a lump of calcium under just a bit of said seal?
See above (if it's debris that's causing the failure to fully close).
Same with the Honeywell.
Well, to get the body of the 3 way valve off the plumbing, whilst being easy to access (right in front of the HWC in the bathroom), you would still have to disturb several other joints to be able to release it. If I take the front plate / ball out and find the seal surfaces are sound, then I'll just change the plate / ball etc.
Remember, I'll be doing this as a favour, not looking to drag it out for more money. ;-)
It's funny what impact such things can have. I rebuilt some collapsed dinghy trailer suspension using some new 'rubber' rods but of a slightly softer (Shore hardiness 65 rather than 70) material.
The suspension then provided much more compliance for the dinghy that was then going to be on it but then exhibited some oscillation at around 60mph. It wouldn't have happened if the suspension was physically damped with a external damper, rather than relying on the natural damping of the 'rubber'.
I warned the new owner of the fact, offered to rebuild the suspension with the harder material but he wasn't bothered, preferring the softer ride and saying the trailer would only ever be used for a couple of miles a year and at 30 mph max. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
If you need guidance on the wiring etc, all the common setups are detailed here, with downloadable PDFs as well:
John Rumm snipped-for-privacy@nowhere.null wrote in news:y snipped-for-privacy@brightview.co.uk:
Many thanks. The motor head seems to be doing the right things.
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