United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this might last longer than expected, hence the generator.
The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread.
Does anyone have any experience?
R.
They will probably be going to use a fairly beefy generator which will be well regulated with a fairly steady output, unlike small portable ones which can wander and produce voltage spikes when load is suddenly removed.
If they are to be using the generator to power several properties it will pretty big, to allow for the typical loads of cookers and showers that the users may power.
Therefore the quality of the supply will probably be fine for your computers, especially if they are fed through UPSs which can protect against under and overvoltage conditions.
Alan.
mailserver
Some years back a workman put a JCB through the main feed into the Industrial Estate that I had a unit on. This put our call centre out of business which comprised 6 girls using PCs and various bits of communications kit, telephone exchange, photocopier etc. To restore a very basic service I hopped home and got out my 2.2KW markon petrol genny. Bringing things back on one by one I was amazed to be able to run the entire call centre all day with no ill effects whatsoever off what was a VERY unsophisticated genny. At least it kept the 70 or so field engineers on the road !
AWEM
The electricity supply where I live has been poor for years. Last summer the utility shipped in generators and replaced all of the line through the surrounding villages. The supply from the generators used over a three month period was actually cleaner than the normal supply (as clocked up by the software on my UPS that counts spikes and brownouts).
The major headache is at startup and shutdown on the generator which causes massive surges. No worse than having the power go down/startup during a storm though.
Yep, the bigger generators have much more "spinning reserve" due to the mass of them. They also use hefty copper wire in the windings which helps voltage regulation. A totally different ball game to the cheap domestic generators that are really only OK for steady loads considerably below their quoted output, or for appliances that do not really care about the quality of the mains.
Good advice.
I would hang a multimeter on the mains and monitor voltage excursions while the work was being done... just in case.
Steve.
Unfortunately yes. It all depends on the gen and the load. A small gen will create huge inductive kicks, and I would be wary of putting a computer on one. OTOH a big industrial thing running lots of other loads has aall those other loads to absorb the inductive surges that all generators produce.
Although surge absorbers are a total waste of time on main, on gennies I would use them.
Gens are generally nowhere near as reliable in any respect as mains, re uptime, waveform, voltage or freedom from voltage surges.
NT
Why do you say that surge protectors are a waste of time?
I suppose that, in a way they are, because my computer was damaged by a big spike that the surge protector didn't stop. On the other hand though, it was a Belkin one that came with an insurance-backed guarantee and they did pay up to replace my computer - so, no, it didn't do its job as it should have done but it didn't cost me a penny to get my computer replaced and from that point of view, well worth the money it cost to buy it.
John
In message , TheOldFellow writes
The generator output will be pretty stable. Your equipment should be fine.
You're talking about connecting a tiny resistance device across a mains network that has an impedance orders of magnitude lower, and with other loads on capable of absorbing orders of magnitude more current.
And using this to supposedly protect appliances that have the protection they need built in already, and you guessed it, that buit in protection is at least an order of magnitude more effective.
The things are less useful than dog turd.
Most of us already have contents insurance, so theres no point buying that twice. You were lucky if you got paid.
NT
So *that's* how they save money in Mumbai....
restore a
petrol
They have ROADS in Mumbai ??
AWEM
Yes, didn't we give them roads?
Along with a rail network and a civil service.
Owain
If its a nice 1500rpm of say greater than 15KVA with electronic AVR then you'll be fine...
Tim..
That was the Romans and the only reason was to avoid conerher utility shops.
India is up there as well. Rail network is seconf largest employer after cinese army.
Just your property or a number of neighbouring ones?
I suspect the latter, as to the generator I'd expect a containerised gen= ny in 6x4x12 foot box capable of producing upwards of 100kVA. Maybe even bigger depending on the properties they are going to run from it. They aren't going to bring an a =A3150 2kVA open frame site generator...
Everytime I go to work on an TV outside broadcast the vehicles are invariably run of a generator. These days the genny is a 250 kVA twinset= (two engines and generators running together to provide spinning hot spa= re for each other). Now a modern HD TV Outside Broadcast truck costs millions, and has all manner of what would be called "sensitive" electronics, along with some "nasty" loads such as big aircon units. Pum= p
10kW+ into a space not much bigger than a couple of living rooms and you= need serious air con to keep it cool.There is very rarely a "problem with power", these gensets are very stable, even when powering lighting as well with big (20kW+) on/off/on load variations.
On 10 Apr 2007 10:14:07 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@care2.com mused:
If your UPS\surge protector manufacturer pays out for damaged equipment then it saves your NCB so why would you want to use your own insurance when someone else provides some? I realise some of the connected equipment warranties are worthless but I've yet to see any decent equipment that doesn't supply one.
Yes, quite so. But that still doesnt make it worthwhile.
a) You've got insurance, so you choose to buy a 2nd insurance policy so you dont have to claim on the first.
b) Insurance policies arent normally worth it, except in cases where loss would cause serious consequential problems or be unrecoverable from. This is why we all have house & car insurance...
and why other insurances are net money sinks. Insurance cos have to make a profit after all, as well as cover operating costs, as well as shuffle peoples money around.
NT
Just your property or a number of neighbouring ones?
I suspect the latter, as to the generator I'd expect a containerised genny in 6x4x12 foot box capable of producing upwards of 100kVA. Maybe even bigger depending on the properties they are going to run from it. They aren't going to bring an a £150 2kVA open frame site generator...
Nice aren't they? Unless they stick it under your bedroom window and run it all night. The one I had shoved under the bedroom window was like a "burger stall trailer" seen on road laybys and then they ran extension leads down to the YE sub main in my back garden. I guess it was the 11kV model.
Adam
On 10 Apr 2007 22:54:34 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@care2.com mused:
Right, but as I said, UPS's usually just happen to come with insurance. I wouldn't actively seek out one that does.
Not particulary quiet though, compared to the TV/Film generators I'm used to.
That would not be nice. I wouldn't like a TV/Film generator parked outside running all night. You'd get used to it as they are fairly quiet, you can hold a normal conversation next to it no problem. Containerised ones are fairly loud, you have to shout to hold a conversation...
Yes, there was an incident near Leeds in the last couple of months, couple of poles snapped off like match sticks. Generator brought in, long jump leads to croc clips attached directly to the 11kV overhead line.
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