Freezer and ambient temperature

[Edgar Iredale]

I have just bought a Frigidaire upright freezer. Reading the booklet I discover it is only intended to operate in ambient temperatures between

16degC and 32degC. I have never seen such a restriction before and have used freezers in unheated undercover outside spaces - garages and utility rooms etc. without trouble. Should I have known of this restriction?

First can anyone explain just what happens if I run it in a colder space?

Secondly should the shop I bought it from (Currys) have told me this before I bought it? And should they accept it back and refund the full price? The unit was delivered, unpacked and positioned by their agents. Apart from opening the door to find the operating booklet nothing has been done to the unit. It hasn't been plugged in.

Thirdly is there a way of overcoming the low temperature ambient problem. I need an upright freezer and it has to go in a utility room merely kept frost free.

Fourthly are there any upright freezers available that will run in 0degC ambient? It doesn't seem much to ask as many people must use freezers in these conditions - for example in kitchens when they go on holiday.

BTW Currys telephone Customer Services said, in other words,"Oh dear. The manufacturers won't honour the guarantee.Talk to the branch.". The branch said "It'll work, but the manufacturers probably won't honour the guarantee if they know.". They did offer the take back the unit but only at a reduced price "because it's your fault.".

Edgar

[Old Bill]

Most freezers won't work in cold unheated places. e.g. relative of mine put expensive make of chest freezer in barn, it didn't work in winter. They are heat pumps and therefore there is a minimum between the ambient and freezer chamber temp.

32C sounds a little marginal though. It got up to nearly that last summer in my utilty room. presumably the one you've got just melts when it gets that hot.

[Rob Morley]

Why not just build an enclosure to restrict airflow? Then it will heat up the air inside and will be running at an appropriate temperature.

[Edgar Iredale]

Thanks. With a light bulb and thermostat for heating when it's not been running for a while, and all removable for summer? I think that kind of idea might be my fall back. But why do I need to do it? All my previous freezers have worked in freezing conditions. How many people make sure their kitchens stay at or above 16degC in mid winter while they are away enjoying their winter sun break?

Edgar

[L Reid]

Well I'd have a word with your local CAB and then trading standards. If you get no joy, tell 'em you told the salesman that it was for use in a garage, and no mention was made of the minumum temp requirements, their bods that came to install it made no mention of the minimum temp, and there was no info to this effect clearly stated on the unit when you bought it. All my experiences with the Dixons group lead me to believe they'll try and ignore your rights as a customer, so moan as much as you can and you might get somewhere.

Good luck!

[brugnospamsia]

My unheated kitchen gets so cold in the winter (below 10degC) I have to fool my breadmaker with a pot of boiling water before it will start !

Jeremy

[Edgar Iredale]

Thanks. I'm considering those options. Trouble is I didn't tell them it was to be used in a garage as it didn't seem an unusual requirement. Nevertheless I think the temperature restriction should have been made clear as some kitchens go colder that

16degC. Ours does sometimes. The other trouble is that I do need a freezer to go in that location.

Edgar

[Edgar Iredale]

8>> How many people make sure their kitchens stay at or above 16degC in mid

I'll tell my wife that tip although she doesn't seem to have trouble so long as I remember to close the back door.

Edgar

[bof]

In message , brugnospamsia writes

Heh, heh, my kitchen too, been down to 3 or 4 C in recent weeks, fortunately the bread maker has a 1hr warm up period before it starts making.

[nightjar]

It is a normal restriction on freezers sold for domestic use. I have known of it for a long time. I have no idea whether there is any reason that you should have known or not.

The temperature regulation does not work properly.

I can see no reason why they should have drawn that restriction to your attention any more than, say, that you should stand it with the top uppermost. We have not reached the stage of America, where consumers can sue if they are not told every little detail, usually in the form of large placards.

It is your choice to use the device in a manner not intended by the manufacturer, who designed it for use in a domestic kitchen, where a minimum temperature of 16C is not an unreasonable assumption.

...

Ignore it, as you have done in the past. The freezers you have used before would have had exactly the same restriction. If they have run without you noticing anything, this one will do just as well as they did.

SFAIK, not from suppliers of domestic kitchen equipment.

Colin Bignell

[Edgar Iredale]

Are you in the trade? I'd be surprised if it was common knowledge.

I should have added "in detail". I've since discovered that some fridge/freezers suffer this problem and that in their case there are good reasons I can understand for it - the freezer is controlled by the fridge thermostat and the internals freeze up preventing circulation of the cooling air flow. However I don't know what really is supposed to go wrong with a plain freezer. Does the motor seize up because its grease/oil hardens? Does the refrigerant freeze? Or is it a problem of condensation and freezing in the case insulation? .....

Putting a freezer somewhere below 16C is not unusual. Currys are well aware that many people put freezers in garages and other cold places. So I think that an ambient temperature requirement of over 16C should have been pointed out one way or another. I don't maintain my house at 16C when I'm away, just frost free.

Yes. I'm tempted but my previous freezers didn't have the restriction, at least it wasn't mentioned in the paperwork, but perhaps things have changed in the 14 or so years since I last bought one - different motors, insulation, refrigerants, controls, etc.

That's what I thought so I'll probably accept the freezer and try to find DIY methods to keep it working if they are needed. And that's why it would be good to know just exactly what the problem with low ambient temperatures really is.

Thanks for your comments.

Edgar

[Bob Mannix]

I had a freezer running out in the garage while the temperature dropped below zero. It seized solid and the compressor wouldn't run at all. After the temperature rose it would run again. Hardly a representative sample, I know, but his might be one of the effects you were asking after. It's possible things have got worse since a move to "greener" refrigerant fluids, I suppose.

[Bob Mannix]

This is all the Whirlpool FAQ site has to say:

Will a freezer work properly if it is very cold or hot in my garage? You must have the temperature set properly. Temperatures should not go below

40°F or hotter than 100°F for proper operation. If temperatures are lower than 40°F your thermostat may not allow the product to turn on based on colder than normal temperatures. The warmer the ambient temperature is (above 100°F) the more the product will run, and it will be less efficient.

[Ian_m]

I thought it was quite common knowledge that fridges/freezers don't work in cold places, fridges usually being the worst. You can get freezers that work in low temperatures my friend recently got a chest freezer as a replacement in his shed and it copes to -10C. The place he bought it from (not a big shed) knew the model to choose, based on location. Don't know if this applies to fridges as well.

[Edgar Iredale]

8> I thought it was quite common knowledge that fridges/freezers don't work

Not to me it wasn't. Maybe I'm too cut off not having had a telly for the last 20 years.

After I started moaning Currys said that chest freezers might do. Unfortunately I haven't space for one and the convenience of getting at things so easily with an upright is important.

Thanks

Edgar

[brugnospamsia]

My Morphy Richards didn't preheat and the manual only mentioned the "too hot to start another batch" warning. It made my brain hurt somewhat as I couldn't see why a computer-controlled thing with a heating element could be too COLD to start !

[Edgar Iredale]

40F / 5C I could cope with by turning up the anti frost heater. But 60F / 16C is a different thing altogether.

Anyway thanks for that and for the story. I had heard that the motor might not run in too cold circumstances.

Edgar

[S Viemeister]

Well, _I'm_ not in the trade, and I discovered it by reading the specifications in the sales literature I collected, when deciding which fridge and freezer to purchase.

Sheila

[adder1969]

My kitchen easily drops below 16C everyday (at the moment) and the freeze keeps running (as far as I'm aware). This country runs on "reason" more than detail (unlike in the states) and I'm sure one could argue that 16C is an unreasonably high temperature in which to be expected to keep a freezer.

The problem with FRIDGE-freezers is (usually) that the thermostat is set for the fridge and the freezer just gets more cooling to keep everything frozen. So, if your fridge is set to 5C and the ambient temp is 4C the compressor won't kick in and the frozen stuff will start to thaw.

Now, with a freezer I would have thought all would be OK except for perhaps extreme temperatures but I'm no thermal engineer.

[Edgar Iredale]

Thanks.

At least you didn't know until you looked at the literature. That's some comfort to me. I just went into the shop and picked the one that would fit the space.

Anyway I've decided to keep it and start using it. To start off I'll keep the temperature up just to make sure there's nothing wrong with it. After a week or two maybe spring will arrive.

Edgar