freeview is crap?

[JJ]

We can but hope... HD coming along in a couple of years time will be a much better option..

[Steve Firth]

FWIW the analogue signal here is provided by fecking huge aerial with a mast top amplifier, it was installed a decent professional firm with a good reputation. And I get the signal from the main mast in the area, not a repeater. However it can never, ever in any way provide a source as good as RGB, and even as good as composite from a digital source is pushign ones luck. Also in this area C5 is only broadcast on digital there's never been and never will be an analogue transmission.

Which (for the odd film on C5) is why I got a STB, and was pleasantly surprised, once I'd changed the default output from composite to RGB, at the quality of the image.

[JJ]

You're forgetting that there's a big wadge of colour subcarrier at 4.43MHz. Any detail above this is effectively lost in a PAL system.

The best system actually historically transmitted was MAC on BSB. That was a cracking good system, but suffered from a poor business plan and a very clever Australian rival.

JJ ps - anyone still got their 'squarials'?

[bof]

Uncompressed SD TV is 270Mbit/s, domestic DTTV circa 3Mbit/s, that's

90:1 compression, if you allow for the H and Vsyncs not being part of the picture it's around 70:1.

[tony sayer]

Which TX is that then?..

Thats statement needs a bit of clarifying doesn't it?. Are you saying that the signal you have off your aerial on analogue, can never be any better than I presume the RGB output of your T-DTV receiver or RGB in general whatever the source?.

Or do you mean that any analogue signal cannot be better then the one you have on your Freeview RGB source?...

Well C5 was a bastardised channel to start with;(

Humm... what TV are you using if you don't mind me asking?....

[bof]

In message , raden writes

Having done a search, I'm still none the wiser on the how, Shannon's Law is one of those immutable things, if you can break Shannon you should be able to achieve the Holy Grail of free bandwidth.

Any pointers to the method?

[Mike]

Really ? Have you heard one of their discs ?

[Mike]

People have been inventing perpetual motion machines since the start of time. It's the same thing effectively.

But there are methods of getting very close to the limit - France Telecomm's Turbocoding being one of the best.

[bof]

In message , Mike writes

Indeed, lots of people are doing turbo coding, as with all (effective) coding it takes you closer to the Shannon limit, I'm curious to learn about the method that breaks Shannon.

[Mike]

I meant they invented it.

Like I said - I don't think you can.

Though a copy of Lotus notes would have saved most of the above being transmitted one more time across the world. That's a far higher coding gain :-)

[Bob Eager]

I'm starting to wish I'd never mentioned Shannon! But it's fun...

[Mike]

Just a pity some idiot didn't go and mention to the UK Treasury that it is possible to squeeze the whole UK's television into a pint pot just small enough that the average Coronation St watching public won't notice the difference, thereby freeing up spectrum you could sell for at least £40bn if you got the same rate as you did for the poxy 3G spectrum, and possibly more since it's so much better spectrum.

[Eiron]

I had one of their cartridges. It was nothing special, and it was not long before stylii became unobtainable. What did Linn prove other than that buying their stuff is an expensive mistake?

[Mike]

They proved that vunyl could have lasted a few more years until a more able CD standard could have been implemented. It didn't happen and now we are stuck with the medium quality format we now have, apart from the little available in SuperCD.

Problem is we are repeating the mistakes again with video only this time the format will be on a par with MP3 players, which of course is the appalling audio standard originally designed for use with digital video.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Only with a crap decoder.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Yes. And *any* vinyl based system has so many fundamental flaws as to be a joke in this day and age. That's not to say it didn't - and still does - give pleasure if you like what you're listening to, but that's it.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

No they didn't. All they proved was that if you hype enough some fools will believe you.

I don't know who you think would want the dynamic range greater than that possible with CD. Very very few would either have a system powerful enough to handle it, or a listening room quiet enough to justify it. Or neighbours far enough away...

[The Natural Philosopher]

? SCART pass through?

Not yet.

[The Natural Philosopher]

No, its not actually. Its teh bit AROUND 4.43 that gets lost...and is it

4.43 anyway...thought it was higher.

Anyway there is a damn great trap at the subcrarrier freq, yes, but stuff above that gets through.

[The Natural Philosopher]

That sounds about right, taking 24 bits and about 6Mhz video BW.

domestic DTTV circa 3Mbit/s, that's

No wonder its crap then.

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