Well, on the basis of complying with the 11th commandment "Be thou not found out" - it's as well to make sure that there's no incriminating evidence which could prove that the work was done *after* the introduction of Part P. This could be important if and when you want to sell the house.
For example, if the electrics are in an extension which was built this year, they *couldn't* have been done before Part P.
Thanks, Christian- that's probably the clearest explanation of a fairly complicated (to a layman) subject I've ever seen. If only my teachers at school could have been like you.........
And date stamps on cable etc. are becoming more common.
Christian.
There's the existing record, then - however, I shall be very interested if anyone knows what information is collected - is it simply "electrics passed", or is it "electrics passed, CU (type xxx), socket on wall X, Y, Z; lighting to points a,b,c (type xxx) (etc., etc.)". What is recorded?
But if it's RCD protected, don't you just need to meet ZsIn
Bugger all. Your chance of being detected is between zero and nil.
The only real chance of problems is if you sell the house and lie on the form, with would be regarded as fraud and could end you in prison. Your new house owner will be far more motivated at picking up infringements and evidence of new work than a BCO who is more interested in his next job where he gets to say how deep the foundations go.
Christian.
Readers will have to refer to previous messages in this thread for context. Why not quote a bit more?
Anyway:
Even if date stamps are on *everything*, then what does it matter if there's no previous record of what was installed?
Technically. Although they also specify a 200 ohm maximum, even this is a recommendation, I believe.
It comes under bad practice. You could certainly attempt to argue the toss, though, if it came to court or something. As I suggested, just adding an RCD to the existing system I would regard as sufficiently safe, although much over 3 ohms and you're starting to look at lighting and fixed circuits, too. However, I would not expect to see such shoddiness in a new or rewired installation and would regard such an installation as a cowboy bodge.
Best practice is to always design main equipotential bonding and circuit cable sizing/resistance for TN-C-S, even on a TT or TN-S system. That way, the system can just be transferred to TN-C-S when it becomes available, which is increasingly common, even on overhead lines.
Christian.
There was enough context in what I quoted to get the gist. I don't like to quote more than necessary. It wastes the reader's time.
The fact that if the date stamps are post Part-P, there should be documentation proving that it was tested. You don't need prior documentation to see what was there before if your cables are stamped 2006, so must have been installed after the rule change.
Christian.
Or potentially if somebody got injured or worse as a result of the work and an investigation highlighted that the work was done illegally.
Lots of valuable advice so far - thanks everyone.
So, I will protect the sockets with an RCD until I get the rewire done. Currently there is a 32A MCB for the sockets. Do I simply need to replace this MCB with an appropriate RCD or is the RCD in addition to the MCB? Do RCDs have the same kinds of ratings? In short, do I buy a
32A RCD and put it where the MCB currently is? Excuse my ignorance!Cheers, Grant
Its not quite as simple as that as MCBs are single pole on the live side of the circuit whereas RCDs are double pole so work on both the live and the neutral side. It may be possible, depending on your consumer unit to replace the MCB with an RCBO - which is a combined RCD and MCB in one unit that comes with the appropriate wire/teminals to connect in the neutral as well.
Not so - nothing is recorded, as you say - so even if the cable and fittings are date marked, it doesn't matter, as replacement of fittings and damaged wiring is allowed without notification.
If it is an RCD, then it is in addition to the MCB. You could put it in a separate box after the MCB to just protect the socket circuit.
However, you can get an RCD that replaces an MCB. It is called an RCBO. However, you may find it difficult to find a suitable device for some older boards. If you have a DIN rail system, then you should be able to find a suitable single width RCBO. These are a direct replacement.
Note, that when you get the circuit sorted, you should probably install an extra few circuits in the kitchen. It is usual these days to have a separate kitchen ring that is RCD protected and to have one or more circuits for fixed appliances (washing machines/freezers/fridges/tumble dryers/dishwashers) that is not RCD protected, so that your frozen sausages are still frozen when you get back from holiday.
Christian.
But that implies that 413-02-16 is just there for the use of cowboys.
I absolutely agree that one wouldn't design a new circuit like this, but I can't see how it would fail a periodic inspection. It's in compliance with the regs and the GN3 guidance.
Of course, it might be a symptom of more serious problems, which *would* be failures.
Well, it could be anyway, as long as the RCD wasn't removed.
I'm really not arguing with you that it would be a good idea to look at what's really happening here, rather than sticking an RCD in and forgetting about it - I'm just always interested in what really is compliant and what isn't.
Will
It would be laughed out of court if you attempted to suggest that your entire new installation had needed every single fitting and cable replaced one at a time.
Christian.
I'd expect to see it as an advisory, provided there was appropriate RCD support and a plastic consumer unit.
I suspect it is written like that so that the OP can continue to use his system (with an RCD) without having the power disconnected by overzealous contractors/maintenance people. It really isn't that unsafe, provided that the circuit conductors passed their continuity tests with the expected numbers.
Christian.
But in context we're talking about adding a socket to a ring, which may be exempted anyway!
I don't know if I have a DIN rail system or not. I think I'll call an electrician ASAP and get things sorted once and for all. I am not willing to take any risks whatsoever!
Christian, I can't thank you enough for your excellent advice. I'll certainly bear this in mind when discussing my requirements with the electrician.
Incidentally, how disruptive is a rewire likely to be? The two public rooms and hallway have nicely finished floors and I would prefer not to have them damaged. I know it will depend on my installation but will an electrician be able to pull through most of the new wiring using the existing stuff? None of the socket cabling is plastered in - the sockets are either behind skirting or fed via metal conduits.
What about cost? £1000-ish?
Cheers, Grant
P.S. Anyone know a good electrician in Edinburgh?
It sounds like 7/.029 cable which was the forerunner of 2.5 solid conductor and ws usually tinned copper conductors. A simple solution of just using 2.5mm T&E to extend it is possible but ignores the ramifications of cicuit protective conductor sizing (earth conductor) and fault currents. However I suspect most of the run of the mill sparkys might do just that.
4mm cable is readily available from half decent suppliers and some wholesalers might even be willing to cut lengths for you. For a fuller answer we would need to know what earthing arrangements apply to your installation and an idea of possible cable lengths involved. You have already advised us that you have a 32A MCB but can you tell us if it a type B or otherwise? If the protection is problematic it might be possible to use a 32A RCBO but we need answers firstHomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.