I've just read a newspaper report on the death by electrocution of Jenny Tonge's daughter. A metal utensil rack in her kitchen had become live as a result of one of its mounting screws piercing a cable. The coroner observed that the cable was only 10mm deep in the wall insted of
50mm. Have the regulations changed? I don't think any cables in my house are sunk that deep.Nick.
This would depend on the direction and location of the cable.
It is permissible to run cables horizontally or vertically from a wiring acessory - e.g. light switch, socket etc. at any depth
This is also permissible in a band extending 150mm out from the corner of a room and 150mm down from the top of a wall.
Cables running elsewhere (e.g. vertically or horizontally but not in line with a wiring accessory) have to be protected with a very stout earthed shield or buried to 50mm or more.
So.... in this case, either cables were run incorrectly or a kitchen fitter was careless, or the young lady suffered the attentions of Darwin.
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
Next thing, the powers that be will want a Part P equivalent for kitchen fitters... :-(
The report also mentioned that the cable 'meandered' across the wall so all is now clear.
Thanks, Nick.
It is an either/or thing, which the report doesn't make clear.
Your choices:
Personally, I don't think 50mm is enough. Drilling for a rawlplug will frequently go deeper than this. I tend to use brown plugs and 60 or 70mm screws.
Christian.
The real question here (from our viewpoint) is whether Article P would have been any help.
We have standards for this work. Following them would have made this accident far less likely - you can still puncture a cable, but you have to try pretty hard. The standards weren't followed though - the only remaining question is whether this fitter would have been seen as any more "competent" under Article P than a DIY installer?
Cable detectors are useful, but they're not a solution of themselves. This rack was installed by the husband, and banning all minor DIY except by qualified kitchen fitters is a "solution" I think few would seriously consider. The fault was primarily, and blame-wise, with the bad cabling and not with the rack-hanging.
I'm still unconvinced that this new legislation achieves anything. When the professionals can deliver a crude bodge like this, it's not the DIY installer who needs to be tied up in red tape.
I can't imagine an easy way to do this. If 'hubby' has a 3mm HSS drill in drill set on "ramming speed", and just presses a bit, it'll go through most stuff easily.
In practice that is what will be needed.
When I had my kitchen remodelling done by a team of two fitters a couple of years ago, one was a CORGI fitter so that he could do hobs etc. and the other was already a qualified electrician. The CORGI guy basically didn't do enough gas fitting as a component of his work to pay for the membership. I expect that the other's NICEIC tax may cover his electrical work.
Guess who's going to pay......
Now where was John Redwood's number??........
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
Heavy duty metal conduit would stop most masonary bits surely? OK - you did say HSS, so I'd agree with that stated, but I would assume that sensible DIYers would use the correct type of drill bit???
As my Dad used (and still does) say - you can make something "fool proof", but not "bloody fool proof".
He witnessed the aftermath from when a substation attendant happily threw an 11kV oil filled switch handle through the "off" into the "earthed" position depsite the fact that to go past "off" needed a 90deg twist of the handle to prevent accidental mis-operation.
Fortunately the operator ended up bent over the now low switch handle by the time the dead short blew the 1/2 inch thick several-foot-square metal lid off the switch, caused it to frisbee over him, across the room and demolish a pair of steel blast doors into the street.
LEB renewed the switch, attendant renewed his trousers.
Timbo
Possibly, but you're not expected to use a 3mm HSS in a wall. A masonry bit might be a more reasonable choice and these are as useful as a piece of celery for drilling into thick walled metal conduit. The rules are to give reasonable protection against foreseeable actions, not to save people specifically intent on commiting suicide.
Besides, have you ever tried drilling metal? Even a quality bit won't go through like cheese through a thick walled pipe. The difference in resistance will be collosal compared to the substrate material (plaster/brick) and be very obvious to the perpetrator.
Christian.
It was probably John Redwood or one of his chums who first introduced the compulsory CORGI membership if working on gas for gain. Check out
But should the Conservatives manage to oust Labour, we will have to rely on civil servants at the Treasury and the new housing and planning ministry telling the new Tory ministers their policies are hopelessly incomplete, contradictory and would have disastrous consequences for the economy, the housing market and the British people?s aspirations to home ownership."
John Stewart, HBF director of economic affairs, Housebuilder August 2004
Hear, hear. I hope they can track down the installer and/or his company and slap a manslaughter(*) charge on them or at the very least neglegance.
(*) Or whatever the correct legal word is for causing such a death.
Sorry, should have stated a new paragraph. Conservatives talk about deregulation but their record suggests otherwise.
Could be. I was thinking of his new role as shadow minister for deregulation......
Mmmm.... Looking at several of his articles, it strikes me that there is more than a touch of political motivation.....
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
Appalling person.
Well said Mr Stewart. You can't allow those fools back into power.
The Queen has Corgi's.
No, an appreciation of reality. At a local ward meeting our Conservative councillors were decrying the fact that an application they'd refused for demolishing 2 bungalows and replacing them with flats had been allowed on appeal. The grounds for refusal had been on the lines of changing the character of the area, not genuine technical matters. What they should have told the local residents is what their party was more than happy to tell redundant steelworkers: that this was market forces at work and they should accept it.
The housebuilders can see that if the Conservatives were to get in, scrap all Prescott's housing targets, and just leave it to local councils to decide what was built and where, the result would be - as the article says - a victory for Nimbyism.
I'm not quite sure why the press reports make a point of not naming the firm but given that people had got shocks or tingles off this rack before I think that what you suggest is OTT. If it were a public building and it came out at an inquest that the 'manager' knew of a potential hazard and had failed to do anything about it, then it would surely be him on trial.
A building manager should be properly trained to assess health and safety risks as part of his overall responsibility for which he/she is paid. In a domestic situation, the occupants are not deemed to be so qualified and may need to rely on the competence of contractors carrying out improvement work to determine what is safe or not.
Christian.
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