Is it ok to have service valves fitted below the trv and lockshield valves on radiators to enable the rads to be shut off and the service valves too for rad removal when decorating? Save all that messy draining down
Er, why? You simply close the TRV (with the decorating cap...) and the lockshield (counting how far you turn it to within 1/4 turn). OPen the rads bleed valve, loosen one of the joints between rad and valve, drain just the rad. Loosen the other valve/rad connection and if the pipe work has enough slack lift of the brackets and hinge down. No, slack? You undo the joints then lift the rad off. Probably better to do that anyway so you can get at the wall easyly.
Service valves will restrict the flow unless you get the fullbore type and aren't required anyway, see above or another recent posting using bungs to enable the change of valves without draining.
I have in the past done the cracked joints, drain the rad trick and also got the rads I couldnt drop down and had to remove them complete. I just fancied being able to quickly remove the whole thing and wndered if there was some technical or legal reason why I shouldnt have extra valves to enable this. I suppose full bore valves wouldnt look too good sited below the lockshield... I am about to have some new rads and pipework fitted and a combi boiler intead of indirect system so thought it would be an ideal time to do this, if at all.
The only reasons I can see are down to aesthetics and cost (unless you redecorate annually!)
Is the idea that you close the rad valves to keep the water in the rad, close the service valves to isolate it from the system, and disconnect the pipes from the top of the service valves and lift the rad off, complete with its normal valves and contents?
It doesn't sound like a very good idea to me! The radiator is going to be a hell of a lot heavier with its water still inside - some are heavy enough when empty! As Dave Liquorice has said, ordinary service valves are not a good idea, because they restrict the flow.
My one view is that service valves are ok on small to moderate rads, but that you would need full-bore valves on larger rads. [I'm not going to attempt to define size any more than that - suffice it to say that rads up to a ceratin heat output are ok with 10mm, or even 8mm pipe.]
If you *must* fit service valves, why not fit a drain valve between the rad valve and service valve on one side of the rad? You can then drain the rad with virtually no mess.
Even better, I believe you can get lockshield valves with a drain valve built in - on the tail between the rad and the valve itself - so you can close both valves, open the drain valve and the bleed screw, drain the rad and then disconnect the rad to valve joints and remove the rad.
Better still - if your radiators have removeable bleed screw assemblies (rather than just the pin being removeable) you can do as I did and make a fitting with a Schrader valve at one end and a 1/8" BSP male thread at the other. When screwed into the rad in place of the normal bleed screw (which you can remove without spillage, as long as both valves are closed) you can pump air into the rad, and then crack one of the valves open so that the water is forced back up into the header tank. You can tell when the rad is empty, because it makes a rather rude noise!
I think it's a good idea but it could look a little strange. As to the opposition to flow, all my rads have the lockshields cranked down to within half to 2 turns anyway, so I don't see the opposition of a servicing valve having much effect. That said however, my system is all on one floor and I have balanced down to get a near 20degree drop for my condensing boiler. If you have any big rads with their lockshield near full open then maybe look for an alternative.
There's no such thing as "Easy radiator removal".
I only do it these days if absolutely necessary.
Would "Lift-Off valves" (Screwfix 30364) be a possibility? I've no idea if they're any good but they appear to be replacement tails incorporating a service valve.
You are putting the valve in the wrong place. You need the valve in the radiator tail, it's the usual 1/4 turn type.
That way you can close the rad off as well as the pipes into it, and remove it.
The weight of the rad + water is the deciding factor in removal.
The tails are also expensive.
They look quite good - any idea if they are full bore?
I like that idea. I've never come across a bleed valve where the taper pin is captive. I guess there is still a bit of water left but not a rad full to drain out through a cracked joint.
[Snip]
Sorry, I've no experience of them, just saw them in the catalogue.
Interesting! I'd not seen these before, but I've just found them in the Screwfix catalogue (the printed one, of course - the "on-line" variety is off the air *again*!) - and they look as though they would probably do the job. It doesn't say what the bore size is, however.
Do you think I should patent it?. The one I use was made for me by a technician when I worked in a car factory, about 30 years ago. I got a car tyre valve, and cut all the rubber off, and got an 1/8" BSP fitting and bored it out to take the valve - which was then silver-soldered in place. There is a picture at:
Many of the newer rads are supplied with 4 x 1/2" bosses to facilitate top or bottom entry/exit (or one of each) - taking a blanking plug in one unused boss, and a bleed fitting in the other. I can use my device with these as long as I use a 1/2" to 1/8" reducer.
fred wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@y.z:
If I read the balancing FAQs (or was it another thread) right, your index radiator lockshield should be wide open, and when I drain me cleanser I intend to try it.
It's true like you say the valves have no effect ubtil nearly wound all the way down- but that means a valve 1 turn plus open is wide open.
I hadn't realised thisn and it led to some confusion, leading me to turn off all lockshields totally. Well, nearly.
You can only be sure of your index if it's wide open; any flow restrictor will have the effect of making it already half shut, and the rest of your system will be shut down that much more on balancing.
If the above is b****t I'm about to find out for meself
mike
You can't now, you've told everyone about it... AFAIK Good Ideas need to be kept secret until you have the patent (at least pending). But nothing to stop you (or anyone else) going into production to market it. Be a neat little kit, bleed valve key, valve assembly and a small hand pump.
I don't have a dead radiator to take the pin out of but memory tells me that they are about 1/8". 3/16th square and I don't recall much of a reduction in the body.
I think you mean 3/4" (OD) at least thats what every rad tail I've ever come across is. B-)
In article , mike ring writes
Will look at my balancing again (not tonight :) but things are a little complicated by a lack of manual pump control, as it is in the boiler (Keston C25) and speed is modulated with boiler output. Was a bugger to get 20degree drop (ended up with all at 18deg) but will happily retry later as I am a bit of a fiddler .
Why not fit stainless flexible connectors if you want to do this? Removes any risk of leakage and may be considered to look attractive. I think some have a drain point also if you want to reduce the weight. Just a thought.
Regards Capitol
fred wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@y.z:
18 deg is good enough for folk; your contr0ls are pretty crude, and if you haven't even got a pump speed preset it must be nearly impossible to get it as specified.I'm not an expert; but I don't think there's such a thing as "right" - you need a certain drop at a certain temperature to get the rated heat output of the rad.
I'm beginning to settle for having them all nice and hot!
mike
In article , Capitol writes
That's certainly what I did, I have 2 rads in a bedroom on the floor at the mo while I paint behind, just lift off, but as said elsewhere on this thread they are a lot heavier when full - 1200x450 double is quite an effort to lift off solo.
Even if you don't want to have the flexibles visible (and it is a bugger to get them vertical and straight) you can always cover them with those clip over (split seam) plastic pipe covers - usually white I think.
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