Earth Connected to Neutral

[keenbutconfused]

Hello. Have been looking on the internet for a while now and althoug

haven't managed to find an answer to my question do feel an enormou sense of relief in finding a group of people who between them seem t have an enormous body of knowledge and the willingness to help peopl like me (electricity newcomer) out. I hope you can help Have taken down existing light fitting in bathroom and have found cables that seem confusing.

Electrics in bathroom are as follows. One pull switch which turns th one light fitting on and off. When I turn on the light the fan als comes on. There is an isolator switch whcih can be used to turn off th fan whilst the light is still on. When the light is turned off the fa stays on and then turns itself off after about 5 minutes. There is als a shaver socket.

I have drawn a diagram of how the wires are connected in the ligh fitting and the pull cord switch. See link below.

have been given two suggestions as to how to fix this. Either put i tc&e cable between pullcord and light. However I do not have access t the void where the cable runs.

The second suggestion is to wire up as per this diagram.

would lose me the use of the timer in the fan but would give m back an effective earth hence making it safe.

Can anybody see any problems/ dangers with this second approach whic is what I intend to do?

Any help you can offer would be really appreciated.

Thank

-- keenbutconfused

[AlexW]

As this is in the bathroom...

I am not sure this classifies as "help" but it is worth considering the implications of building regulations Part P (I am assuming you're in the UK). Searching this NG on google groups should give you a lead.

Alex

[Fred]

Are you suggesting that under Part P he can't render his wiring in his bathroom safe or should I say safer. Or should he just leave it as it is and save forking out a couple of hundred pounds or so? Is this progress?

[John Rumm]

The fan will expect a neutral plus a permanent live and a switched live. It looks like the power feed to the light has been taken to the switch position rather than the (now) more common "loop in" wiring where power it taken to the fitting first and a separate drop wire is run back to the switch.

Hence the setup you currently have is with the earth being used as a switched live...

The other option would be if you could get power to the light position from elsewhere - then you could demote the cable drop to the switch to the task of supplying only the switching function rather than also having to provide a full feed with neutral.

Can you get the the light position from the loft/room above the bathroom?

Yup that ought to work OK at the expense of loss of the "run on" timer.

Without more cores to your cable (or providing power to the fitting itself rather than the switch) that is as good as you are going to get it.

[AlexW]

All I am suggesting is that the OP (whatever gender) should understand the implications of Part P. Irrespective of whatever happens next ... its better than being ignorant of them, IMO.

Alex.

[BigWallop]

Someone has used the Earth Connecting Conductor in the cable as a secondary neutral for the switch and permanent neutral to the extractor fan.

This is not dangerous in the fact that the cables can not take the current rating of the loads they are connected to, but, it does make it dangerous in not having a proper safety earth ground connection to fitting in an area that contains large humidity factors.

Can you see if a separate earth conductor has been installed to the light fitting or fan assembly? If not, then it might be easier to leave the existing wiring scheme and install a single earth conductor to the light fitting and fan points. You may be able to do this from the metal back box of a socket or other light fitting close to the bathroom area.

[bigcat]

That is precisely what part p means.

NT

[Hugh]

"keenbutconfused" wrote in message news: [e-mail]...

Just to point out that in your diagram you say that the light fitting doesn't need earthing. It does if you can reach for example a shower cubicle while touching the fitting. My electrician made me cross bond to a radiator before issuing a certificate. That meant using surface mounted conduit, and earth cable clipped to skirting boards - I was a bit miffed as this was a completely re-furbished house and could have been installed within wall spaces, loft etc.

[Owain]

Has a circuit-protective-conductor not to be run in parallel with all cables and to all accessory positions, regardless of whether its' "required" or not?

471-08-08

In every installation which provides for protection against indirect contact by automatic disconnection of supply, a circuit protective conductor shall be run to and terminated at each point in wiring and at each accessory except a lampholder having no exposed-conductive-parts and suspended from such a point. {i.e. the cpc must be taken to a ceiling rose, but need not be continued to a pendant}

and note also

471-09-02

Where a circuit supplies items of Class II equipment, a cpc shall be run to and terminated at each point in wiring and at each accessory [... exception as above, or where 471-09-03 applies]

Owain

[John]

ANY work in a bathroom including just swapping a broken switch or lampholder is classed as notifiable work and must be either carried out by a registered contractor or notified to Building Control and inspected by them.

STUPID but what do you expect from the Fuckwits department

[BigWallop]

I thought swapping like for like for exempt from notification. I could be wrong though.

[Stefek Zaba]

No, you have it correct: like-for-like replacement is not notifiable even in a 'special location' (bathroom) or kitchen.

However, in this case, he needs to make the wiring less of a bodge job; and that he can't do without Notification and Inspection.

Stefek

[BigWallop]

Even if the fittings are still the same ones, or like for like? I think KBC (the OP) could argue the case that "he" never touched it.