DIY conveyancing

[Rich]

I am purchasing a small piece of land from my neighbour which has its own title number at the land reistry. I intend to register this at the land registry (and Inland Revenue) myself but have got slightly stuck!!

The vendor's soliciter is quite happy for me to do my own conveyancing but can not act jointly as the value is a bit too much. He has however asked me to supply him with a "Transfer Deed" for his inspection but I can not find an example anywhere (I assume it is not the same thing as a Land Regisrty TR1 which I understand I will also have to execute before registration).

Can anyone help with the text required for a straight forward "Transfer Deed" please?

[BigWallop]

Go to newsgroup, and someone will give you better details on how this works.

[Autolycus]

It sounds as though you may have skipped a number of stages in the usual process. Many of them aren't strictly necessary, but it's best to know what they are so you know what assumptions you've made and what risks you're taking. For instance, have you done local authority searches, examined the Land Registry entries (OC1 - do it online), and exchanged contracts? Normally you would then do the bankruptcy search, send off OS1 (official search with priority) and finally you, as buyer, would complete TR1 with any special covenants etc you've agreed) and send a draft to the vendor's solicitor with your requisitions.

Bradshaw's book "House Buying, Selling, and Conveyancing" covers all this quite well, and so does the "Which?" book for straightforward registered property. If you've not done it before, I really would recommend you get, and follow, one of these books. If nothing else it will stop the vendor's solicitor taking the wossname.

Best of luck with it: I'm in the middle of my ninth bit of conveyancing, and it's very satisfying when it all goes through.

[Rich]

Dear Kevin Thanks for your reply. We own all the surrounding land already and are aware of the local search results (no problems there!). Have done the Land Registry office copies entries OC1. We have agreed to go directly to transfer rather than the usual exchange/completion route. A couple of further questions please -

1) Are you actually sayng that TR1 is the only deed of transfer that is likely to be required and that I can submit a draft to the vendor's solicitors? 2) Can you advise when to do the OS1 with protection as I understand that it is only valied for 30 days and preumably during that time I need to obtain a certificate from the Inland Revenue on SDLT 1

[Autolycus]

My most recent transaction (the only one since the last set of changes in the law) was the sale of a house with registered title, and I didn't even see the TR1 till I turned up for completion. I don't think the buyer's solicitor bothered with an OS1 at all. So yes, the TR1 is the modern substitute for "Whereas..." and "Now this deed witnesseth..." and "hereunto set my hand and seal". You don't even need the sticky paper seal and the performance of putting your finger on it while you recite "I deliver this as my act and deed". "Signed as a deed" seems horribly prosaic for something as splendid as buying land.

IME the Land Registry are the most helpful, competent, and prompt government department, (or agency, or whatever they are today) I've ever dealt with. Even their online stuff works. So I'd do the OS1 three or four days before completion, and fill the SDLT1 in immediately online. According to Bradshaw the only circumstances you can get away with not sending the certificate with your TR1 and AP1 is if the IR have held onto it for more than 20 days, so I'd guess even the IR must be geared up to dealing with them quickly.

[Rich]

That sounds most helpful thank you.

[NoSpam]

Yet another question to the assembled experts ... How easy/hard is it to DIY the legal formalities to give part of a non-mortgaged house to a relative? My brother has just been quoted £450

+VAT and that seems a bit steep.

Dave

[Robin]

You might wish also to post the question to uk.legal.moderated. (NB do not crosspost as the modbot rejects everything which is cross-posted.)

It might also help to give a few more details - eg if the house is freehold, if it is held by joint tenants or tenants in common, if it is in E&W or Scotland. And by "part" do you mean a share of the house (such as 22%) or a distinct physical bit (such as a self-contained annex)?

[dom]

I can't comment on the conveyancing - but there may be capital gains tax implications - and if the gift is connected with a will, further potential gotchas that may appear at a much later date.

[NoSpam]

Thanks, I'll do as you suggest. It's in E&W, currently let and he wants to give a percentage of the value to two relatives, I think it's leasehold.

[John Williamson]

Having just been through two sale transactions, that seems cheap.

From what you say in your other post, I'd also suggest consulting an appropriately qualified accountant.

I've heard too many horror stories from my solicitor of DIY conveyancing going horribly wrong and having to be corrected at great expense at sale time.

[Huge]

Hear, hear.

(Did you mean "solicitor" or "conveyancer" rather than "accountant"?)

After my experience two houses ago, I will no longer deal with those doing their own conveyancing.

[SS]

Quite easy to do, very difficult to get it right! Apart from what has already been mentioned there is also inheritance tax. You need to get an expert that understands the bigger picture to do this for you. generally speaking Lawyers/Banks/Accountants are the last persons to advise on this. You have to get a specialist to cover everything and then you go to a lawyer to legalise it.

[John Williamson]

Both. Conveyancer/ solicitor to set up the paperwork, and an accountant to advise on the best way to deal with the taxman.

My sale and purchase this year were complicated enough and they *had* both been dealt with professionally last time.

[Nick]

Pay the money for g-o-o-d professional advice. Solicitor and perhaps accountant as mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Unbeknowns in the future could cost many times the amount involved. They can bite you on the bum and, believe me, that can be extremely painful. I'm eight years into such a thing (not of my making). Next stop is High Court sometime next year. Solicitors, barristers etc. costing a fortune. Try to get it right first time around, this can save a great deal of grief in the long term and for all parties concerned. I'm not a pro but have come to value the advice.

Good luck, Nick.

[NoSpam]

Fortunately another relative is a chartered accountant

[SS]

"Fortunately another relative is a chartered accountant"

Solicitors put down your wishes and make it legal (but not necessarily tax efficient) Accountants balance books. You are looking for a specialist in trusts, Capital Gains Tax, probate and Inheritance tax

Very few solicitors and probably less accountants are qualified to give information on this subject, in fact very few are legally qualified to advise on this. If they do they can be reported to the relevent body for malpractice.

I have no doubt you will listen to your relative the chartered accountant, but unless he has specialist knowledge then if not you then in years to come the inheritors are going to get their fingers burnt. This subject is a much bigger issue than many realise.

[Nick]

The above is precisely why I wrote g-o-o-d professional advice. I agree with the sentiment but disagree with some of what SS has written.

A trust implies safeguarding something for the benefit of other(s). CGT, probate and inheritance tax refer to the residual estate on the event of the the owner passing away, and the consequences to inheritors. OP has not written that these are presently an issue. I wholeheartedly agree that these matters should be addressed. Sooner rather than later. There is much to be gained from timely planning. If solicitors and accountants are not up to these tasks: (1) wtf do they do to earn their exorbitant fees & (2) who else is qualified to advise and act upon such, possibly very, complicated issues?

This really is not a DIY thing, but you pays your money and takes your chance. Or not. Nick.

[SS]

Nick, I think we are on the same track, although OP has not written they are an issue when a specialist gets hold of ALL the information they usually find one simple thing starts to impact on another and another....its like a pack of dominoes falling, its never so simple.

In general terms solicitors and accountants are not and do not have the qualifications to advise on these issues. As to your point 2.... a specialist, and yes they are very complicated areas, you will usually find the people that have the necessary qualifications and are registered (so can be checked) are financial advisors in the above fields.(but not all) The advisors that can advise (properly) have normally to take 6 monthly exams to keep up to speed with changes in the law.

Please bear in mind that normally a solicitor or accountant has NEVER taken the exams to advise on these subjects, not sure of now but it used to be a 4 year course, thats why when an Acc or SOLIC qualify they wont spend another

4 years studying another subject.

[RobertL]

Personally, I would pay to have a solicitor do it. I would also ask advice on the tax implications which are not straightforward.

Unless the people are married, if the giver dies within 7 years of making any gift the value of the gift is still included in the estate for inheritance tax purposes. If the giver goes on living in the house then the gift might not take effect at all for inheritance tax and even the 7 year limit will not apply. However, the gift will take effect for capital gains tax purposes so if the recipient is not living in the house they can end up with a capital gains tax liability when it is eventually sold. You can end up with the situation in the distant future where the growth in value of the gifted part of the house is taxed twice.

There are also implications for state benefits of course.

Robert