Did we somehow ruin the next generation?

[Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)]

Yes my old Rogers Amp is still working due to me bodging the volume mounted mains switch with tape and evo stick. Brian

[Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)]

Did they ever have practical hobbies? I flew and built model planes and boats. I'm sure you do your best learning when its fun, and I was always inside electrical stuff. As long as you always keep one hand in your pocket you will just get a moments pain. Brian

[Pamela]

People implored not to cycle like that but they only later learnt his thinking. After that, it was easy to show he'd misunderstood what knobbly tyres were for.

He was helped repair the first few punctures and in the end learned to fix them himself.

The strange thing was his demand the shop fix it rather than anything himself. It was like he had no notion people ever fixed such things.

[Tim Streater]

That's good. A lesson that will have broader implications.

Largely, people don't, I suppose. Stuff's not made to be repaired. Automated construction gets the cost down but makes it more complex to fix.

[Theo]

I'm roughly the same age as your daughter, and a lot of that chimes. I've been doing DIY (FSVO) since I was six. Difference is I had nobody to teach me, so I've mostly learnt it myself.

Being in Generation Rent rather hampers the DIY tendencies, but for a long time I had an absentee landlord who never spent a penny and didn't care, so I did it myself. The downside was it was never worth investing to do things properly given you could always be kicked out at 2 months notice, or indeed fined for changing things. So the DIY was usually minimalist stuff to keep things going.

Having moved from 30-year-old to 10-year-old cars I don't do as much DIY as I used to on that front, however it's always difficult when you're working on the street and don't have anyone to help/tell you you've done it right/make sure you aren't going to die. So mostly avoid stuff on the underneath (plus crawling around in the cold is no fun). Previously I did a carb rebuild and a full underseal, so I can be a slug if I want to be :) I have some leaked Toyota dealer software to plug into the OBDII, which makes fixing stuff on modern cars a lot easier.

Recently bought a house so lots to do in prospect, although not a lot of free time to do it in :(

Theo

[Theo]

Also worth bearing mind that technology progress trains people up to keep pace with it. Maybe you started with a classic Land Rover and learnt how to work on it, then moving through a few decades you learn how new things (eg fuel injection) work. A modern Range Rover is a complicated beast if you've never worked on a car before but it's much easier to deal with as 'it's just like the previous gen but with a few changes'.

The same applies to a lot of tech: if you've followed it through the generations you can keep on top of the progress. And so give someone a modern boiler and to them it's really just the same as the 1970s lump they might be familiar with, only with some condensing stuff added, and then electronic control instead of a mechnical timer, and a piezo instead of a pilot light. Whereas if you show that to someone who has never seen a boiler before it's a big pile of pipes and wires.

Theo

[John_j]

There is plenty of that on youtube now.

Yeah, but not normally required anymore if you are careful about what you buy now.

And the net makes it so much easier to find a cheap replacement now.

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

Tim Streater formulated the question :

They are more complex, but the complexity in many ways helps you diagnose the problems.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

You can, but the home mechanic manuals skim most of the detail. Full manufacturers manuals are much more detailed.

For not much money, you can buy diagnostic units - complete stand alone units, or interfaces and software for a laptop. I have four. The car basically is able to tell you, or at least provide some clues as to what ails it. How much simpler can it be made?

[The Natural Philosopher]

I not so much automated constriction, as irreversible assembly techniques being cheaper.

Glue stiff together not screw it.

snap click that cant be unsnapclicked.

[Pamela]

Some repair work is much less skilled than it used to be. The cost of labour compared to the cost of components has seen to that.

Back in the old days, a man would repair your telly or washing machine by laboriously tracking down the fault and replacing the exact component which failed.

Nowadays, repairmen (if they take on the job at all) replace whole chunks without the same level of understanding into what's gone wrong within the unit they replace.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris Minor.

[Bob Eager]

Apart from changing the brake master cylinder, as I recall.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

True. ;-)

[The Natural Philosopher]

easiest car of all was the herald/spitfire, until you had rust to deal with...

[Andrew]

Getting the rear brake drums off old E93A fords needed a hefty puller, so DIY brake shoe replacement wasn't easy. Other cars might have been similar.

[whisky-dave]

Why would they want to know, they can't and shouldn't fix the problem themselevs.

I'm curuious as to what goes wrong with our PCs in the lab, but we have a contract with dell to keep them running and we have I.T services an outside companyb that we pay to look after setting them up and keeping the software running. I just report a problem to them. On average about 4 PCs a week are down. One of them had a logic board problem to the engineer sent a replacement board that was faulty, then they replaced the whole PC which took them 3 weeks to sort out and this is on our 24 hour contract.

That's our job, but more an more students 3D print a box for their project that could be bought for a fraction of the time and cost, but they don't know how to drill square or even round holes, but they can create it on a screen. Mabe that's why we've just bought 2 new 3D printers for them.

Other than that they just want things ordered from amazon.

I have one final year student that wants two 555 timers, so has ordered a tube of 40 at 87p each via RS.

He's been told that everything in the lab carosoul is free, where I have about 50 555s in a draw but I guess he's too lazy or stupid to bother.

[Bob Eager]

I changed that for a 1952 Series I Land Rover. I did the front UJ seals on that. The harder one was the clutch change - single handed.

[Chris J Dixon]

Anybody remember checking the spark plugs on a 1500 Beetle? ISTR adapting the tubular spanner by drilling an extra hole so the tommy-bar would fit in at 45 degrees to the axis.

Chris

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Very heavy box?

Easiest clutch change I ever did on a RWD was a Mk1 Escort. Finished before elevenses. ;-)

But the Triumph 1300 FWD took the biscuit. All done from inside the car without removing the box or engine.

[T i m]

;-)

Both daughter and I were naturally 'creative' when we were young. Give either of us some Selotape, card or paper and we would make all sorts of things. Same with Lego / Meccano etc.

That was mostly the same for me, for the things *I* wanted / needed to do, but my Dad did at least (indirectly) show me how to use tools, by watching him whilst helping him (no choice). ;-)

But whist the general tools thing was of use, he had little idea re mechanics or electrics so I would do that round the family home.

Where did I learn that. I don't know, but with no Internet in those days it can only have been from an inquisitive mind and the opportunity (house with back garden, tools, workshop, tolerant parents) to experiment. I was 'left / trusted' to take things to pieces as long as they were still working properly (or better) when I was finished. ;-)

When I took the engine out of a Fiat 850 at 15 years old it was just more of the basic things I had learned from cycles and other machines and the good old HBOL. ;-)

Daughter is in a similar position to you re what she can (or wants, under the circumstances) in her rented flat. The landlords have visited and are pleased with all she has done so far (and pay promptly for any parts we use if we have to repair stuff (like I fitted a new button panel to the washing machine the other day, because I could and it was quicker and easier than getting him or the agent down).

We save him some money by fixing some stuff, he is more flexible / generous re what we can do. ;-)

I know what you mean Theo. ;-)

However, in many cases the use of a camera, referring to the manual and being very diligent re compatibility of replacement parts (and the parts themselves often only going on one way round etc) mean you are generally ok.

That was partly why we sold the (her) Mini and built the kitcar. ;-)

I take my hat off to you re the undersealing. ;-)

Whilst I find that sort of diagnostics quite interesting (as I'm into electronics and 'computers' as well etc), it's not quite the same as getting your hands dirty, especially a successful engine related job.

I only bought our house 40 years ago so haven't finished it yet. ;-)

Cheers, T i m