Crappy crapper

We've been in the house a little over a year now and the main toilet has never been right. Slow flush, slow draining, poor clearance. In particular, the feeble flow tend to mostly fill the basin, then the level goes down slowly. There's never the "whitewater rapids" effect beloved of toilet duck adverts.

It doesn't appear to be blocked. Chemistry and air pressure have tried, it has become neither better nor worse.

The pipe behind it is about 3' of near-horizontal before exiting the wall and joining the stack. It's not ideal, but I've had worse.

The top of the stack _might_ be blocked? It's old, there's no balloon cage, I've never been up there (3 stories, beyond my ladders) to check.

Haven't inspected the sewers closely, but no trouble elsewhere. The outside toilet works fine, so it's the stack or upstream, not the ground sewers.

Something I've just realised though is that the water level in the pan changes, as soon as you try to flush it. Now isn't this indicative of a double syphonic trap? AIUI, these are less than favoured, for much this reason. So is that likely to be my problem? Is anything in there likely to break? Can I check / fix it? Must I just throw the (ghastly avocado) thing away and fit a new one?

Your advice welcome...

Reply to
Andy Dingley
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IME these tend to fill the bowl, and then they empty - but reasonably quickly.

Is there anything that connects to the stack above the problem loo? (just wondering if there was a way of creating an air break or entry point to test the blockage hypothesis)

Sounds like you are itching for an excuse ;-)

Reply to
John Rumm

B&Q used to do a =C2=A350 all-included white loo with modern flap valve and chinese torbek copy. I got one to replace the Navy Blue horror in our house when we moved in five years ago. =C2=A350 is a fantastic bargain if they still do it, or I have a used 35yo Navy Blue designer loo with cracked close-coupled cistern looking for a new home to haunt...

R.

Reply to
TheOldFellow

Above us only sky...

I don't need an excuse, I need time! There are a dozen other rooms needing more urgent fiddling, and a whole spare house 200 miles away. Besides which, I'll need a copper bathtub finished before I really start on the bathroom.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

my ma has one like that - same colour even!- most disconcerting to watch "the goods" come back at you before going away, you daren't turn away until normality has been restored .... :>) JimK

Reply to
JimK

No lower access point you could shove a drain rod up?

Reply to
John Rumm

When you say 'changes' do you mean it drops a bit then starts to fill up again?

A long time since we had a syphonic thingie but ISTR that if a bucket of water is poured in then it should clear pretty smartly without needing anything siphonic doing.

Possibly something (almost anything) unpleasant stuck somewhere around the U-bend. Have you tried running one of those coiled steel drain cleaning jobbies around the bend? Things that wind up on a reel? However, with a siphonic I think that the loops and curves are pretty hard to clear even with one of these.

Tap it smartly with a hammer to see if that loosens the blockage? [ ;-) ]

Reply to
David WE Roberts

Ours is like that, press the flush and the level drops slightly. If you look at the side you might be able to work out the path of the internal pipe work, ours has some dimples in the chinaware.

It's not the best flusher and can get blocked but nothing a bucket of water delivered quickly has failed to shift yet. The wash down is poor, it doesn't do the back of the pan at all.

Filling the bowl rather than washing down is indicative of a poor outflow. Can't you get access to the stack/stub without removing the loo? You might be able to get one of those bendy spring rodding things around the trap but not sure you'd get it past the second one if it's a double. If there is some cotton or plastic based blockage I don't thing chemicals would shift it. Where there any young kids in the house before you bought it, I'm thinking a flushed disposable nappy or feminine hygiene product.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

You start with 'slow flush'. Ours isn't syphonic, though it does have a similar length of near horizontal, but was getting bad a few months ago and I eventually got around to changing the syphon. It's been transformed. Surprising what you get used to. The lever is now so much lighter. I think you should try the bucket test first, to make sure it isn't simply insufficient water delivery !

Andy C

Andy C

Reply to
Andy Cap

I'm guessing its an old WC by the colour? Could well be a heavy scale build up restricting the flow. When you say chemical treatment, was that caustic soda?

Try a highly acidic product like One Shot.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Or an angle grinder.

Reply to
Frank Erskine

Our problem was a very heavy buildup of scale, just around the bend where it couldn't be seen. This was acting as an anchor for a much larger bulk of other stuff like dental floss and paper, that had got itself hooked onto the stalactites and 'gmites.

Yes, definitely acid; but if the scale buildup is really thick, it will be better to remove most of it mechanically first.

If there is anything caught up inside, get it out using one of those flexible rota-rooter things. Then use concentrated bleach to digest and clean up the organic matter, so the limescale is a bit more sanitary to handle. Then lever the scale off in lumps, using a stubby flat bladed screwdriver and other dental tools to reach around the bend.

Once the bulk of the scale has been broken off and scooped out of the pan, the acid will have a much better chance to dissolve the rest of it.

Reply to
Ian White

Not yet. I could mangle grinder a hole in the side and fit a cover afterwards. Easiest though is probably a webcam on a stick, lifted above the stack top outlet.

There's also the infamous "11 grand paintjob" over the wall and pipe. I'm not going to spoil that until I'm in the mood to retouch it neatly afterwards.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

So why is a double siphonic pan seemingly a bad thing for flushing? I have a standard sized cistern which dumps a standard quantity of water through a standard plastic flush siphon. Surely that should have the same "flush power" as a bucket?

I just don't understand the mechanism that's slowing me down here - could it be leakage from the cistern outlet directly into the top of the syphon and missing out the pan altogether? Is there a valve in there that could have failed?

Reply to
Andy Dingley

Hasn't anyone suggested WD40 yet?

Reply to
<me9

It it's a double trap symphonic then there /is/ an extra device to divert some flush water into starting the syphon action in the pan.

Reply to
<me9

WD-40 should be poured/sprayed down the bog anyway.

Reply to
Frank Erskine

No need. A passing visitor has been trying to lose weight with Olestra...

Reply to
Andy Dingley

or a pressure washer?

Reply to
Jules

Ferzacerly the same as mine.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

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