Confused over lamps

I'm somewhat confused about the phasing out of several types of lamps and would like some clarification please on what types will stay and go. Is there a web site that clearly indicates which types will continue in future.

Our house, like many others I presume, has a wide variety of lamps from 12v dichroic downlighters through to R50 reflector spots with to suit Edison screw fittings.

I'm most concerned about the 12v dichroics as we have lots of these around the house and I had been planning install more of these in a new loft conversion. Someone said that, just like ordinary incandescent lamps, these use tungsten filaments and that they will disappear also.

Can someone assist please?

Vet Tech

Reply to
Vet Tech
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The only sure thing is some retailers seem to be phasing out standard GLS pearl lamps. All others appear to be safe - at least for the moment. There are certainly no decent alternatives to MR16 LV at the moment - and I doubt there ever will be a CFL alternative. LED *might* in the distant future. Incidentally, I find it a joke in this energy conservation hysteria that the sheds have near stopped selling MR16 LV fittings and concentrated on the much less efficient GU10 mains ones.

I did try a GE Endura CFL to replace an R80 which was quite satisfactory - but had a very high price. However, it failed very early on - I'm told due to being run cap up and in an enclosure. So a fat lot of use since this is how most R80s are used...

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 04:32:49 -0800 (PST) someone who may be Vet Tech wrote this:-

Good for making the disc in your electricity meter spin round rapidly,or the electronic equivalent.

I wouldn't.

Eventually I hope they will. However, it is not going to be made compulsory tomorrow. It may be that as the price of electricity goes up only those with money to burn will still use them.

Reply to
David Hansen

OK, if you wouldn't fit 12v dichroics what would you fit that would give an equivalent amount & quality of light and would not be slow to start and become progessively dimmer over an extended period of time?

The loft conversion where I want to install the lights will be used as an office/study where relatively high brightness is required. I've not been at all impressed with the low energy offerings that currently exist.

Vet Tech

Reply to
Vet Tech

Almost anything else except mains downlighters will give better light for the power consumption. Halogen downlighters are the most inefficient lighting there is (mains ones even more so than LV ones). They just shout out "dirt cheap" to me, which is pretty much why people install them.

All lamps of every type I can think of become progessively dimmer over their lifetimes. Some die at end of life and some don't die at end of life, but that doesn't mean you can't replace them at that point.

You should probably install proper office lighting. Domestic lighting hardly ever gets anywhere near office lighting levels. Have a look at some office lighting schemes. If you have a low ceiling (or even just an 8' ceiling), consider indirect lighting bouncing off a brilliant matt white ceiling. This can be done with wall and/or floor standing up-lighters. If your office use demands special lighting (e.g. artwork, or for some users, heavy VDU use), then say so, and also say what natural lighting you have there. If you do very small detailed work, then additional task lighting is likely to be appropriate too.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

100W GLS have started to go. Lower wattages next year for pearl finish. Clear may last a bit longer.

Chapter and verse here:

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Our house, like many others I presume, has a wide variety of lamps

These are likely to be around for some time to come since they are both more efficient than other incandescent lamps, and there is no effective replacement for them yet.

Reply to
John Rumm

Well, the 'ban' is voluntary at present, but follows suggested European guidelines. So, while it is not illegal to supply 100 Watt lamps at present, the major retail outlets have agreed voluntarily not to supply them. Links are available in this message to the European guidelines:

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reading will tell you the suggested fate of 12 V dichroics. My reading of the pdf document is that as the lamps you mention are probably directional, they are not covered by the current suggested legislation, but will be by legislation to be brought out in 2009.

Regards,

Sid

Reply to
unopened

On 17 Jan 2009 16:53:32 GMT someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote this:-

I agree with everything you say, but would add two more things:

1) in an office/study the start time is not that important, so I would include some types of lamp which do take a while to start up in the list to be considered. 2) I think that in any office/study task lighting will be highly desirable. This has the advantage of allowing a lower general lighting level.
Reply to
David Hansen

Sid posted in this newsgroup a reference to

shortly after it was published. Many of the deadlines therein have yet to be formally proposed or adopted, but the document does at least outline the plan as it currently stands.

Reply to
Mark Williams

Interesting that Traffic Lights are excluded - yet close to my house are some traffic lights controlling a narrow bridge which are LED Arrays. The seemed to have teething problems getting the brightness balanced on all 3 colours - but now they seem fine.

Reply to
John

Define efficiency really. LV MR 16s were introduced as a replacement fror crown silvered and PAR38s in retail lighting. When they first appeared they were expensive and unusual in domestic settings. At the time they were an energy efficient replacement for 150W 240V PAR38 a

50W 12V MR16 puts same amount of light on target.

GU10 some how took hold presumably because people thought they were easier/cheaper to install. None of them trafo thingys....Connecting LV lamps to line voltage has unfortunate effects.

Pressed metal downlighter rings make the cheapest easiest way for builder to populate a ceiling with lights, similar cost to planting pendant sets accross the ceiling., GU10 short life span aint the developers problem.

LV MR16 is a very efficient way of delivering light in a directional manner, wether dircetional lights are suitable as main illumination in a domestic setting is differnt thing entirely,not related to efficeincy.

Lighting is like heating, if you want it bright its an energy intensive activity, Sun delivers about 1.2 kW m^2 of light, coming anywhere close is an energy intensive use, either that or go back to oil lamp levels of illumination.

Its having realiable data on lumen maintenance knowing when your just burning money with worn out tubes, Mr Hansen with his vintage CFLs for instance, that and convincing people that it is really past its useful life even though it still lights up.

T8 or T5 concealed into coffers illuminating towards apex sounds possible, you may not want very high light levels in a small space though. Heat generation on top of computers etc is also worth considering.

Natural light is always going to be the winner, cheap to run, but sunniest day may be the ones you have to pull the blinds.

Background light level to taste and add task specific lighting to areas that need it, with LV halogen. Perhaps LEDs let into shelves and kickplates.

Adam

Reply to
Adam Aglionby

That's misleading - unless you're just measuring light output in the centre of the spot. Which is down to optics rather than efficiency.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

=A0 London SW

Specifically light on target,its not misleading until the marketing bods get their hands on it ;-)

Optics , be it a GLS in a shade or discharge lamp at the back of long train of optics in a projector , is part of what defines real world efficiency. Figures like lumens per watt are actually fairly abstract and tell you nothing about how a lamp will perform in the real world. Missed out the badly spelled bit where I said

"wether dircetional lights are suitable as main illumination in a domestic setting is differnt thing entirely"

Apart from Halogena style high wattage halogen lamps, which are a much better replacement for 100W incans than CFLs in living spaces, there is also a range of line voltage GLS style halogens, fully dimmable, higher colour temp than incan and considerably more efficient:

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not 5 for 50p down local supermarket.

Adam

Reply to
Adam Aglionby

,

Providing general lighting in a room by pointing spotlamps at the floor is what's horribly inefficient. There's nothing much wrong with the MR16's themselves when correctly used. It's the completely incorrect use of spotlamps for general lighting, combined with relying on reflecting off the floor. They're only used because they're so cheap to buy (not to run).

You commonly find 500-1000W of these in some kitchens, which are achieving less general lighting and light where you need it than a 100W bulb hanging in the middle of the room would do.

Bathrooms need good lighting illuminating objects from all directions. Every time I end up in a hotel room with those blasted halogen downlighters, trying to shave with my face in a complete shodow no matter how I position it, I curse the bloody things.

Offices need good general lighting to encourage you to accomodate your focus at various different distances, and to keep you awake (as though it's daytime). Home lighting levels are more atuned for evening use, where that's not so important. I also aim for glare-free lighting, which is pretty impossible with halogen downlighters (the more flood angle lamps you use to try spreading the light, the more glare you get).

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

It's probably just a case of political expedience. If traffic lights weren't exempt then potentially every set of lights would have to be completely replaced within three lifetimes of the currently installed lamps in the absence of a replacement lamp.

The types of traffic lights which take incandescent lamps have coloured filter lenses. I imagine that the colour of the lenses has never been very precisely controlled. Maybe a drop-in LED replacement (or three) would not meet the new energy rating requirement behind a coloured lens?

Reply to
Mark Williams

They are within a tightly defined spec, LED green is actually outside the original spec.

LED dosent need to behind a coloured lens and the potential power and maintenance savings are worth several towns worth of totally CFL burning households. Reliable LED traffic light arrays are not low cost items though and budget probably straight from council tax payer.Need to get re-elected before savings begin to pay off.

Adam

Reply to
Adam Aglionby

Interesting. Less blue?

Indeed. But it will almost certainly cost more to modify the existing units to take hypothetical drop-in LED replacements and then install the efficient LED replacements than it would to just manufacture native LED units. The only advantage of the former path is that it defers the replacement of the whole units for their half-life (on average). The existing incandescent lamps would still come to the end of their lives in a relatively short period of time and leave highway departments having to do one or the other were there no exemption.

I'm not sure what point you are making here.

Political expedience, as previously suggested. The only new installation of traffic lights I've noticed in the past six months is of the incandescent type.

Reply to
Mark Williams

All recent new traffic lights in this area have been LEDs. (So far as I have seen them.)

Reply to
Rod

Not my field, but as I understand it , yes. Green LED is centred around 525nm , bright emerald green, traffic light green should be more cyan, LED is available in cyan but manufacture yields are lower so take longer /more expense to obtain quantity of matched colour.

Last time looked into this, couple of years ago, there was a number of retrofit units designed to replace incan reflector/lens housings in existing lights. But guess there is a whole variety of legacy lights fitted across a typical councils estate.

That money spent on marketing and legislating use of CFLs could be better employed on projects with measurable payback, like LED traffic lights ;-)

Here, Edinburgh, most new installations, and with car hating council there is an awful lot of new lights appearing, are almost exclusively LED. Say almost because have seen a couple of newly fitted incan units, can only presume they are old stock from stores getting used up. False economy. Not a fan of traffic lights everywhere but they are an application where LED is superior in every respect to the incan it replaces.

Adam

Reply to
Adam Aglionby

Not my field, but as I understand it , yes. Green LED is centred around 525nm , bright emerald green, traffic light green should be more cyan, LED is available in cyan but manufacture yields are lower so take longer /more expense to obtain quantity of matched colour.

Last time looked into this, couple of years ago, there was a number of retrofit units designed to replace incan reflector/lens housings in existing lights. But guess there is a whole variety of legacy lights fitted across a typical councils estate.

That money spent on marketing and legislating use of CFLs could be better employed on projects with measurable payback, like LED traffic lights ;-)

Here, Edinburgh, most new installations, and with car hating council there is an awful lot of new lights appearing, are almost exclusively LED. Say almost because have seen a couple of newly fitted incan units, can only presume they are old stock from stores getting used up. False economy. Not a fan of traffic lights everywhere but they are an application where LED is superior in every respect to the incan it replaces.

Adam

I have only seen one set in the city where I live and they have been in situ for about 4 / 5 years controlling a narrow bridge.

I can't understand why there are not more of them - perhaps they are outside the proper spec.

Reply to
John

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