The kitchen refurb is becoming a rebuild and it looks like Management will be going for downlighters to replace the current reflector bulbs which blow every 5 minutes.
Anyone care to offer advice on mains v low voltage?
How many, and what wattage would adequately light a kitchen 6M x 3M?
TIA.
On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 14:45:53 +0100 someone who may be F wrote this:-
Mains, with compact fluorescent reflector bulbs fitted to them.
Oh dear.
LV are better, but both are appalling ways to light a room.
I don't think you can adequately light a kitchen with downlighters. Look back over the very many threads which have already covered this issue.
On Sat, 1 Jul 2006 15:16:18 +0100, David Hansen wrote (in article ):
Not forgetting to choose the kitchen furnishings carefully to contrast with the bilious light from these bulbs.
If you must, LV every time. The short service life and high cost of mains bulbs makes them utterly uneconomic and a pain to keep replacing.
I wold say that next to Saniflos they are the second worst load of crap ever perpetrated on an unsuspecting home improvement public. Apart from stripped pine that is..
Plenty will tell you how utterly Eco-hostile incandescent lamps of all types are, but heck its your money...
Not appalling, juts a bit inefficient.
You can, but a lot depends on what you mean by adequate...
With large spread and angled eyeball types you can do a reasonable job with about 3-6 50W units..but these are SPOTLIGHTS. They light up specific areas really well, but leave other areas somewhat in the dark. This can be a good or a bad thing depending.
On Sat, 1 Jul 2006 16:21:03 +0100 someone who may be Andy Hall wrote this:-
You are entitled to your opinion. However, some of these bulbs give a very good light.
However, other then task lighting (such as one positioned over a sink), downlighters have no place in a kitchen, which is a place to work in.
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 08:38:53 +0100, David Hansen wrote (in article ):
Provided that you don't mind the nauseating effect that they create. I have yet to find any of these compact fluorescent bulbs that I would entertain having anywhere in the house, let alone the kitchen, and it isn't through lack of trying. In the best case, the light provided creates a flat and dull appearance to things and in the worst, positively pukey.
A kitchen has many purposes. Working is only one of them.
There is certainly an application for halogen downlighters in a kitchen for accent lighting where they do a very good job. Additional task and general lighting can be used as required.
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:07:29 +0100 someone who may be Andy Hall wrote this:-
Your assertion is wrong. They may create a nauseating effect in you, but they don't create a nauseating effect in everyone. I haven't heard this claim from anyone else, so I suspect it affects very few people.
A kitchen has one purpose, working on food (and perhaps things like flower arranging). If it is also a dining room then one needs more than just work lighting. However, other then task lighting, downlighters have little role to play in these other sorts of lighting.
In the last 6 months I have found they have greatly improved.
To the extent where they are now routine replacement for all non dimmed non halogen fitments.
I used to be of your exact opinion, but have changed my mind..
I have all halogen in the working ares of my kitchen - careful angling means that the working ares are well lit, while the non working areas are adequately illuminated. It does take a lot of light units though.
>On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:27:05 +0100, David Hansen wrote (in article ):
No it isn't.
You must move in limited circles with rose tinted spectacles. It probably wouldn't be mentioned in the Observer's book of Alternative Technology that these things are aesthetically revolting.
Yours might, but don't assume it to be the case for everybody.
Clearly you don't understand the difference between accent, task, general and natural lighting.
Halogen downlighters can certainly have a part to play as part of a comprehensive lighting scheme in any room.
CFLs may be OK in your outside toilet as an emetic device, but that's about it.
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 11:13:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote (in article ):
Which brand and type have you found where this is the case?
Go for mains.
Lots of comments (thanks) saying 'not downlighters' but none saying what the alternative should be...
Well, what other types of lighting are there bar downlighters?
I like uplighting, but its been given a bad name by those dreadful plaster bowl things.
NT
I have to agree that they're nauseating (even relatively new ones) - perhaps I'm unfortunate, but I've always had a keen sense of colour, and the spectral balance of CFL's is completely unnatural, making anything in their field of illumination look washed out and dull. I'm not certain, but I'd think it was the difference between a continuous spectrum (as found in proper incandescent lamps and sunlight) and a multi-line spectrum tailored to look like a continuous spectrum by placing the relatively narrow phosphor emission lines in the red/green/blue regions the eye is sensitive to - certain materials which don't reflect the wavelengths emitted by the CFLs will look unnaturally dull - for a quick test, compare the colour rendering of a 'photo, a well-presented meal or your own skin in sunlight, incandecent light (particularly LV halogen light), candles, a "white" screen on your PC and CFL light, judge for yourself which are more natural, and more aesthetically pleasing!
CFLs have their place, they're fine for low-level utility lighting in hallways, stairwells, porch lights etc, but they have no place where people might look at each other, food, art etc.
Kitchens to me are the focal hub of the home, a place where one doesn't just cook food, but eats, drinks, entertains close friends and family, and they deserve to be lit in a welcoming fashion, not like an underground car-park.
Dave H. (The engineer formerly known as Homeless)
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 11:20:17 +0100 someone who may be Andy Hall wrote this:-
Your assertion is wrong. You didn't say that you claim they create this effect in some people and thus imply that they create it in everyone. They don't, so your assertion is wrong.
Excellent, a personal attack. Usually a sign of no better arguments.
Are you attempting to have a dig at me? If you are then you are floundering.
Aesthetically revolting in what ways? If you mean the colour of the light then that has already been covered. If you mean some other way please state what it is.
Excellent, mind reading. However, your mind reading skills are zero.
Almost any form of lighting can have a part to play in any room. As such it is a statement of the obvious. However, the part they can play is limited by their well known failings. Certainly as general lighting they leave a lot to desire. Discussion can't go much further as the OP has neglected to say what sort of lighting he is after.
Yawn, another attempt at a "clever" remark that falls flat on its face.
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 17:25:16 +0100 someone who may be F wrote this:-
Well, do give us a clue. We are not mind readers.
You need to tell us something about the kitchen. What is done in it? Are there distinct areas in the kitchen, dining area and kitchen proper...? Any particular features, perhaps an oak beam? How much use does the kitchen get? What style is the kitchen, ye olde worlde, art deco, ultra modern...? Are you looking for general lighting, lighting tasks or to illuminate some focal point? Do you want your electricity meter to spin round like a catherine wheel when you turn the lights on?
Give us a clue and you might move the discussion on.
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 18:27:41 GMT someone who may be "Dave H." hallways, stairwells, porch lights etc, but they have no place where people
I don't recall anyone suggesting that people should eat meals under bright compact fluorescent lighting.
They can be all these things and others.
A kitchen, or a kitchen that includes a dining room? In the latter case a variety of types of lighting will provide appropriate lighting to what the room is being used for at any time.
I'll try.
6M long, 3M wide.Modern.
Used for food preparation and (gasp!) cooking.
Also used for consuming meals when the two of us are by ourselves.
Need 'general' lighting plus more for preparation area?.
One short wall will have base cupboards and wall cupboards across it.
One long wall has window and door and will have sink and a gas hob with a hood above it.
Other short wall has a door and fridge on it.
Remaining long wall has a door and will have 600mm wide floor to ceiling cupboard with built-in double oven next to a 1M wide surface with no cupboards below or above and which will usually be used for food preparation and consumption. Oh, and I don't like to prepare food in the gloom!
As for the electricity meter spinning, I prefer to see what I'm doing in a decent light rather than save a couple of pence.
Hope that helps!
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