Chainsaw

On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 23:39:02 +0100, "michael adams"

Have I *always*? No. Do I normally, yes.

I guess it all depends on how sharp the chain is and what you are doing with it.
Daughter repaired a garden saw for someone and sharpened it whilst she was there. Whilst doing so she noticed a broken tooth and so when handing it back to the customer, took the scabbard off and went to rotate the chain to show him the broken tooth. She slipped slightly and took a nasty chunk out of the back of one of her fingers that took ages to heal. All the other times she was working on the saw she was wearing gloves of course and hasn't hurt herself like that previously AFAIK. ;-(

;-)

Well, I would go as far as to say 'thick' gloves were an ideal choice (as you say, exactly what are you doing with the thing) but I generally wear some sort of glove when working on any engines or other hot / greasy things, simply to save my hands getting covered in grease, cut, pinched or burned (or getting dermatitis). Even some thinish gloves can save quite a bit of damage to skin.
When not dealing with something specifically nasty I wear gloves that have a reasonably thin rubber grip (but thicker than those surgical type gloves that I usually tear putting on) that have cotton backs that stop your hands getting all sweaty.
Cheers, T i m
p.s. When she was taking her CS-30 the examiner asked one of the other students if he was happy he had finished re-assembling the saw and that it was ready for inspection. The student replied 'yes'. He asked again, if he was sure and again, 'yes'. He then failed him because he had put the chain on back_to_front. ;-(
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On 08/06/2016 00:11, T i m wrote:

I did that on a pole / pruner saw the other day - took the bar off to clean out the gunk and see if I could improve the oiling. Reassembled, and then though this does not seem to be cutting at all well ;-)
The do cut so much better when you drive them in the right direction!
--
Cheers,

John.
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On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 02:00:22 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

I'll try & remember that :)
NT
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On 08/06/2016 09:00, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Years ago my neighbour was struggling to cut up a dead apple tree with a borrowed chain saw. One look at it and I saw the chain was on backwards. Apparently the guy he borrowed it from said "best of luck, I cant cut anything with it"
Mike
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We're clearly singing from different songsheets then.

If a chain isn't sharp, either new or re-sharpened, then I can't really see much point in fitting it on the chainsaw myself.
But then YMMV I suppose.
michael adams
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On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 12:16:26 +0100, "michael adams"

What if you were taking it off, or testing the engine?

Possibly, assuming you never need to take a chain off, or rotate one by hand to test for free movement or a snag / tight spot, only fit them? ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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wrote:

But presumably anyone willing to fit a new chainsaw without wearing gloves will have already taken off the previous one without wearing gloves.
I fear you've rather shot yourself in the foot there.
I was only suggesting that
a) anyone foolish enough to cut their hands to ribbons simply by fitting a chainsaw chain shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a chainsaw in the first place
whereas you're now suggestion
b) anyone foolish enough to cut their hands to ribbons simply by fitting a chainsaw chain having already cut their hands to ribbons in removing the previous one *should* be allowed near a chainsaw.
Chains have four sides. One with sharp cutting teeth; one with innocuous teeth to engage the wheel; and two perfectly safe flat sides.
You do the arithmetic.
michael adams
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On 07/06/2016 22:39, michael adams wrote:

Not really what I was talking about... I was more thinking of using the saw at height, where you may need to use the saw safely one handed. You can do that with a top handle saw, but not a normal layout one.
(tree climbers will normally have the saw on a lanyard anyway, so they can climb freely and pull the saw up to use when they need it, and simply "drop" it when they are done).
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John.
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On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 01:44:27 +0100, John Rumm

And the whole thing about working in a tree by 'climbing' (typically with rope and harness and / or strop and spikes to get up into the canopy) is you don't have to keep hold of a ladder and so have both hands free for use (inc a two handed saw).
This also comes into it for many (professionals):
http://www.trees.org.uk/Help-Advice/Public/What-are-the-regulations-for-working-at-height

Yup. Ideally they will also be anchored to the tree with a 'wire' strop that can't be accidentally cut though with the saw, unlike their climbing and safety lines. ;-(
And much of this climbing gear needs regular (6 months?) LOLER testing ....
http://www.ecotreecare.co.uk/loler-inspection.htm
(archive page but still relevant)
Cheers, T i m
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But hold on. Only just a while back you posted this

So have you now changed your mind about it being permissable to use a two handed saw* in a tree ?
Oh and BTW nobody is suggesting anyone has to hold onto a ladder. In order to develop a strong trunk, the standard procedure for most trees is to remove all the lower branches usually to a height of six or eight feet leaving a smooth trunk. And so short of trying to jump the usual expedient is to use a ladder to get get up to the branches.
*Simply because a saw is two handed doesn't necessarily mean it takes requires to hands to operate. A rope sling or similar around the neck can be looped through the top handle and the saw suspended from that. Certainly when making vertical cuts in horizontal branches All the electrics I've ever used have an instant brake - the saw stops dead as soon as the trigger is released which IMHO anyway means that anyone with any appreciation of kickback and the importance of not binding the saw - by taking two or more angled cuts and removing segments rather than going straight through would need to be pretty dumb to come to grief. The chainsaw is only used for the bulk of the cut in any case. Once the branch start to creak its an easy matter to finish the job with a bowsaw.

The safety lines won't be under tension so why wouldn't they drape them behind their shoulder as is standard practice with cords when using power tools.

Relevant how exactly ?
So how often will your average DIY'er be using all this climbing gear ?
Unlike DIY'ers professionals are in a hurry, and need to satisfy insurance companies; who for sound business reasons need to assume that all the people they insure are idiots. Who will therefore need to be kitted out with idiot proof equipment. At great expense natch.
michael adams
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On 08/06/2016 12:39, michael adams wrote:

There are times when pros will use larger saws while in the canopy (usually when felling large trees in sections), but its not the general choice of saw when pruning etc.
Note that those instructions cited above are for a non pro user of a light duty non pro *electric* tool. There is a world of difference between what can be made safe enough for someone fit, well trained, and with all the appropriate tools and PPE (not to mention co-workers trained in aerial rescue standing by), as opposed to a casual user working alone without the benefit of much experience, or adequate kit.

You could do that, but it would be stupid IMHO since you would defeat the chain brake that needs the presence of a hand on the front handle.

The key flaw in that argument is "as soon as the trigger is released". Kickback happens fast - the chain will be in your face long before you get a chance to let go of the trigger. The brake is designed so that its activated, and the chain is stopped, by the kickback of the saw itself.

Hard to guarantee when you are falling out of a tree with a saw on full revs!

Hardly ever - hence why the instructions simply say "don't do it".

The correct kit does not make the tasks of working at height, with trees, and with chainsaws "idiot proof" by any stretch of the imagination. Each can be dangerous tasks in isolation, let alone when doing all at once.
--
Cheers,

John.
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On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 13:36:39 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

My fondness for removing tree limbs with a chainsaw is rapidly fading.
NT
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On 08/06/2016 13:45, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

It would be worth looking at either a dedicated pole saw, or one that is an attachment to a weed whacker style power head (sometimes called a "pruner" attachment). These mean you can easily lop branches a few meters up while working from the ground, with the only real risk being hit by bits that you have just cut off.
A moderate length one, can also be more safely used on a ladder etc, since the saw itself is far enough away that you can't easily come into contact with it.
--
Cheers,

John.
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On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 17:13:23 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

a rather large and fatal risk. The one just down weighs nearly 2 tonnes. No way am I being anywhere near under them when they come down.

being on a ladder with a 2 tonne branch dropping past sounds suicidal. Or swinging past, bouncing past etc. I'm not even considering it.
NT
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On 08/06/2016 17:37, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

One option is to prune it in sections - take the end off first, then work back toward the trunk. That way you are not cutting free massive amounts of timber in any one go.

Yup, not the way to go for that size of branch - but ok for 2" - 3" thick branches usually.
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John.
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On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 18:18:10 +0100, John Rumm

'Taking a tree down' rather than 'felling' and dismantling on the ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdOyOK7MEz0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOBsbLac8lw

Cheers, T i m
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Heres a real Pro in action;!...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iemQmoDtS9c#tx.724036

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Tony Sayer




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On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 18:18:08 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

the last one was a foot thick. Even a 3" length falling would be a hazard. I've got enough kit to do 6", the chainsaw is really wanted for bigger stuff.

Indeed. But I'd sooner use a safer saw for those. Chains are quick but don't exactly have a good safety record.
NT
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kit to do 6", the chainsaw is really wanted for bigger stuff.

past, bouncing past etc. I'm not even considering it.

The exact nature of your situation isn't immediately obvious from what you posted.
This isn't supposed to be a cross examination I'm just trying to get it straight in my head
If you're faced with branches which are a foot think then that suggests they must be at a considerable height from the ground. Except maybe for really old trees which are covered by a preservation order.
Which is what makes your ladder comment a bit puzzling unless its an exceptionally long ladder.
Which also begs the question as to how, if you don't already own a chainsaw the "last one" "came down".
First up with that weight and size, as has already been pointed out you'll need to take it down in bits. Ideally you'd want to rope these from above and ease them down slowly.
All my own tree pruning is in suburban gardens, sometimes branches overhanging neighbours gardens, sometimes overhanging a roof. All these have to be secured with ropes both from above and below to stop the branch tipping over or crashing down prior to being cut.
Second up you need to be able to reach the site of the cut safely.
If you can't get to it with a ladder then you'll need to get men in with ropes
If you can do this using a ladder then as has been said you need to secure this with a rope. You can do this prior to climbing the ladder by looping a rope around the branch (the same technique using long poles, an overhanging arm with a latch at the end, and a plumb bob all DIY as is used for the branch ropes) and then looping this through the appropriate top rung of the ladder and pulling tight as you ascend. To then secure it with another rope. This is mainly for dodgy angled branches. (With all loops not on branches to be cut you need a second cord tied through the (metal) loop to ground level to open the loop and pull it back down afterwards. A mistake you only make once.)
Assuming you can reach it, before ever reaching for a chainsaw you can severely weaken a branch - sufficient to make it less work with a bowsaw, simply by drilling a succession of overlapping holes in the topside, making flats with a chisel and mallet to site the drill bit. How successful this would be would depend on the length of the available drill but its advisable not to even try to go all the way through. Basically the branch/section will start to separate due to its own weight and this can be finished off with the bowsaw. It will also be necessary to clean up any remaining stump with the bowsaw afterwards.
However before even starting the above its maybe advisable to make sure you have enough spare batteries, sharp drill bits and bowsaw blades to finish the job in one go.
michael adams
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On Friday, 10 June 2016 10:02:43 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:

rd. I've got

l. Or swinging

don't exactly

u posted.

traight in my

hey

The last one was TPOed. I'm not really willing to climb great heights for t his. More interested in doing fallen trees & sections, and ones where immed iate removal is needed.

It brought itself down, landing on 3 walls, 2 roofs & more. Lady luck was i n attendance, no-one was in the way at the time and the roofs are fine. It has now been brought to the ground and everything upto 7" cut. Next job is to chop the main limb into usable wood. I'm thinking of rigging a frame so the saw works like a chopsaw. Accurate-ish cuts will make good use of the t imber, it will become lots of small dimension stuff.

l need to

e them

nging

cured

ropes

looping

nging

branch ropes)

pulling tight as

angled

Bowsaws take too much time to be practical. We used them this time where no thing else would reach, but not otherwise.

nish

NT
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