I ordered some worktop today, gave our address (obviously a business), told them I would pay by cheque on delivery. I was out when the delivery was made but had left a cheque with a colleague. The guy delivering said they couldn't take a business cheque and took the worktops back!
Total inc delivery was £85, frankly I'd have left them given that it was a
10 mile round trip.Is this normal, are businesses always ripping DIY yards off or something?
Not uncommon to see this in BMs and filling stations to name but two vendors that are vulnerable to rubber cheques. Opening a credit account is easy with BMs. They seem to prefer this. The other way is to use a credit card and if you keep a card just for business use (even if it is a personal one) you get a nice monthly list of transactions to keep with the accounts.
Bob
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "R D S" saying something like:
Istr something about business cheques being harder to chase up if they don't get honoured (especially if issued by a limited company), but SWK will be along soon, I've no doubt.
It's because business cheques aren't backed by a Cheque Guarantee Card.
Owain
Many stores are actually refusing cheques at all.
I have a business debit card from my Handyman account which I use all the time. As you say, it makes keeping the books easier.
Don't know about them, but my import clearing agent routinely operates by having their driver collect multi-thousand pound cheques when he delivers.
Colin Bignell
We had an incident a few months back where a regular customer paid for £120 goods on a Nationwide cheque and £100 guarantee card.
The whole cheque bounced and even though we know it was a genuine oversight on behalf of the customer the Bank refused to inform the customer or pass on any letters to the customers address to tell them.
We had 2 options, involve the police which was a bit extreme considering she was local and it wasn't deliberate (though we didn't have an address) or, re-process payment using details taken from Card. Which was stepping slightly outside the safe side, but theoretically the customer had authorised payment of the funds already.
No comeback from bank or customer so all's well. Cheques are definately not as welcome as debit cards which guarantee the funds are available at time of purchase.
You had a third, which was contact the customer direct. There are ways of finding out where they live.
Especially as it was a regular customer. Just wait for them to place their next order (any business worth it's salt would have contact info for regular customers anyway) and have a word.
Pete
Most I write are well beyond the value of any guarantee card.
Colin Bignell
That only covers a liability of =A3100 at best. These days no-one outside eBay simply wants to handle a paper transaction for that little. Even if the cheque's rightful holder is in funds, paper-based fraud is just too easy to do. The problem is knowing if the cheque is even genuine, not just if it's creditworthy.
The real reason is that company cheques are drawn on the assets of a company, and if that goes down there's nothing in the pot. They're either going to hide behind their limited liabilities or (more likely) anyone holding a single cheque from a failed company is already at the back of a _long_ queue behind the banks and the taxman. At least an individual's cheque has some hope of recovering the debt through the courts, unless they go totally bankrupt. Bankruptcy is a major event for anyone, even today, but a company director winding up a debt-laden Ltd. is an everyday occurence.
Business cheques aren't always the same thing as company cheques (a sole trader is just as suable as an individual, no matter what the name on the cheque) but it's impractical to tell them apart at short notice.
I understand the concern regarding cheques. Had I been present I would have given them cash. Saying that I would think that not taking cheques would cost a business more from lost revenue than possible fraud.
Each to their owm.
What I was most suprised by was the decision to abort delivery despite the maximum loss being whatever a yard pays for 9 metres of worktop.
It covers liability up to the limit on the cheque card. Some customers get cheque cards with higher limits :-)
Owain
I have to take cheques because that's how most people pay, but I much prefer cash - not because I don't want to declare it, simply that cheques still take 4 bloody days to clear. It's 2007 for heavens sake!
I assume that it is a little difficult to install a card reader, with permanent access to the Banks computers in the back of a van. Also as I know to my cost, the Banks charge the earth to small businesses.
You think you've got a problem !
Try paying a Sterling cheque into an Irish bank account (something I do from time to time...)
It takes 15 working days to clear.......
But then - we don't get snow over here (beautiful sunny morning - clear blue sky at the moment), and (strangely), nobody ever asks for a cheque guarantee card, and many suppliers will deliver things to you on the understanding that you'll pay them when you get a round tuit - how very civilised
Take care on the roads
Adrian Sunny West Cork
They can also be quite costly to process through a business account.
It takes three days for a bank that is a full member of the Cheque and Credit Clearing Company and four days for associate menbers, who have to work through one of the full members. Full members are:
Abbey Alliance & Leicester Bank of England Bank of Scotland Barclays Clydesdale The Co-operative Bank HSBC Lloyds TSB Nationwide The Royal Bank of Scotland
Day one is the day of presentation to the full member, with a cut-off time of 3:30pm. Later presentations are processed the following day.
Day two: Early in the morning the cheques from day one arrive at the bank's clearing centre, most of which are in London. There they are sorted, according to the destination bank. Once sorted, they are boxed up and taken to the Cheque and Credit Clearing Company's Exchange where, as the name suggests, banks exchange cheques drawn on each other. The banks take the ones drawn on them back to their clearing centre, where the number and value of cheques is verified.
Day three: The destination bank reviews all presented cheques and decides whether there are reasons not to pay them. A proportion will be physically checked against fraud, which is the main reason that they have to reach the drawing bank before funds can be released. Agreed payments are then processed between the two banks in their Bank of England accounts. Since
1997, the cheques are no longer returned to the account holder's branch, which could add another day to the process.Cross-border (England or Wales - Scotland) transactions currently add another day for cheques to be transferred between London and Edinburgh.
Of course, that only gets the funds to the state of being available to the payee's bank. Whether the funds are actually made available to the payee that day is a commercial decision by the bank.
If you can come up with a process that can handle 12 million cheques every day, with the standards of security that the banks demand, faster than that, you could probably afford to retire on the proceeds.
It used to be possible to ask for immediate presentation, but the last time I did that was in the 1960s and it was in the City, where it involved sending a courier from one bank to another, with appropriate charges. Worthwhile to clear a shipload of frozen Polish ducks, but probably not for everyday use.
Colin Bignell
On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 09:20:19 -0000, "nightjar" wrote:
|! |!"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message |!news:eqgd6v$oh3$ snipped-for-privacy@registered.motzarella.org... |!>
|!>> "Owain" wrote in message |!>> I understand the concern regarding cheques. Had I been present I |!>> would have given them cash. |!>> Saying that I would think that not taking cheques would cost a |!>> business more from lost revenue than possible fraud. |!>
|!> I have to take cheques because that's how most people pay, but I much |!> prefer cash - not because I don't want to declare it, simply that cheques |!> still take 4 bloody days to clear. It's 2007 for heavens sake! |! |!It takes three days for a bank that is a full member of the Cheque and |!Credit Clearing Company and four days for associate menbers, who have to |!work through one of the full members. Full members are: |! |!Abbey |!Alliance & Leicester |!Bank of England |!Bank of Scotland |!Barclays |!Clydesdale |!The Co-operative Bank |!HSBC |!Lloyds TSB |!Nationwide |!The Royal Bank of Scotland |! |!Day one is the day of presentation to the full member, with a cut-off time |!of 3:30pm. Later presentations are processed the following day. |! |!Day two: Early in the morning the cheques from day one arrive at the bank's |!clearing centre, most of which are in London. There they are sorted, |!according to the destination bank. Once sorted, they are boxed up and taken |!to the Cheque and Credit Clearing Company's Exchange where, as the name |!suggests, banks exchange cheques drawn on each other. The banks take the |!ones drawn on them back to their clearing centre, where the number and value |!of cheques is verified. |! |!Day three: The destination bank reviews all presented cheques and decides |!whether there are reasons not to pay them. A proportion will be physically |!checked against fraud, which is the main reason that they have to reach the |!drawing bank before funds can be released. Agreed payments are then |!processed between the two banks in their Bank of England accounts. Since |!1997, the cheques are no longer returned to the account holder's branch, |!which could add another day to the process. |! |!Cross-border (England or Wales - Scotland) transactions currently add |!another day for cheques to be transferred between London and Edinburgh. |! |!Of course, that only gets the funds to the state of being available to the |!payee's bank. Whether the funds are actually made available to the payee |!that day is a commercial decision by the bank. |! |!If you can come up with a process that can handle 12 million cheques every |!day, with the standards of security that the banks demand, faster than that, |!you could probably afford to retire on the proceeds.
The banks^h^h^h^h^hvultures are **talking** about speeding up the clearance of cheques by use of electronic funds transfer.
Not at all; handheld card terminal with dial-up mobile phone data connection. Used all the time by market traders and the like.
Owain
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