BT phone line

[Dave Liquorice]

They try a wriggle if it is going to cost a lot of money, indeed there may even be a get out clause these days.

[Dave Liquorice]

Not BT Retail but BT Openreach will be involved to do the physical work of jumpering the appropriate pair from the customers premises to the 3rd parties kit in the exchange.

[Owain]

But at a standard rate, not taking into account the *actual* cost involved.

Owain

[The Natural Philosopher]

Indeed, BUT you don't have to deal with their crap. Someone else does, and best of all, you don't have to deal with BTs opaque billing systems.

OpenReach is the GOOD bit of BT, if there is such. BUT you can't get to them unless you are trade..the bad bit is the support desk, the marketing and the billing.

[Jules]

Yes, I can understand that costing real money - but it seems unfair to lump it on one resident if the cable is already there and the work involved is minimal. I'm getting the impression that BT don't make the distinction though and just charge anyway.

It's not necessarily a nice little earner for them of course because the work's still been done by them at some point - but I'm quite surprised that if it *has* been done then it hasn't already somehow been absorbed into the development costs for the new build.

cheers

Jules

[Bob Eager]

Usually BT pay the builder for their part in the work. But that only covers the costs from the house back to some local connection point - BT still provide the connection to the exchange, and the exchange equipment.

[mick]

Talk Talk put in a new line for 59.99 - but you are on a 2 year contract IIRC. Pretty good on calls too so probably worth looking at if they are available at that exchange.

I've just been through this as my BT line was disconnected years ago.

[tim....]

The principle that costs should be averaged over all subscribers dates back to the fairly early days of the public network, on the grounds that every new addition to the network benefited those already on it.

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that worked when we had a monopoly supplier.

As soon as proper competition was introduced it became impossible to cross subsidise installation costs from call costs

tim

[Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot]

Because it's already there! All the real work's already been done, surely, or am I missing something?

Si

[James Salisbury]

Yes you are missing something. Work out how much it costs to provide that cable, and who paid for it. It was explained to me by a BT manager it can take some years before a line returns a profit.

[Bob Eager]

Yes. All that's there is a wire back to a local connection point. It still needs to be connected back to the exchange. BT will have multi-core cables running between various connection points, but someone has to get in there and connect up spare pairs back to the exchange. That can take some time (I watched them do it, in part, when they connected the extra line so I could have ADSL).

Not to mention connecting it to the exchange equipment, testing it and so on.

[Tim W]

James Salisbury wibbled on Tuesday 10 November 2009 21:05

Yes - but the lifetime of the cable should be quite a lot longer. I think it would be quite reasonable to get a single[1] line installed for nowt on the expectation that BT *will* derive a profit from it in the medium term. The number of cases of someone installing a line, then lapsing it after a couple of years must be quite small.

[1] I can understand a case of charging if one customer wants more than one line as the probability of a future encumbent using and paying line rental[2] on those lines is also perhaps small. [2] My reasoning is that you have to pay line rental anyway - guaranteed revenue even if you make sod all calls. To draw a parallel, you don't pay the car hire place to buy their new cars - that's factored into the rent you and all future hirers pay.

[Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot]

Then why do they offer free installations on a regular basis?

Si

[Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot]

Then why do they offer free installations on a regular basis?

Si

[Owain]

Assuming there is spare pair back to the exchange. At some point new cable will be required; according to

works out pro-rata to =A356/km/pair in an 800-pair cable in an existing duct.

So the BT installation fee buys you about 2km of buried wire.

Owain

[Bob Eager]

Marketing.

[Frank Erskine]

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:33:19 -0000, "tim...." had this to say:

That's just the same as requesting a 'larger' electricity mains supply to your (commercial, at least) premises. At one time the 'leccy board' would gladly increase the supply capability without any direct charge, on the basis that your increased use of the electric effluvia would more or less cover the cost. Obviously nowadays that can't work since you will likely be buying your energy from Tom, Dick or Harry Power plc.

[Frank Erskine]

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:49:05 -0000, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot" had this to say:

You're missing something.

There isn't (normally) a single pair going back to the exchange from your premises. Lines go through one or more 'flexibility points' (cabinets and, at one time (there are still a few!) pillars), as well as the actual DP (pole or wall-mounted distribution point).

In the 60s, the predicted takeup of telephone service was typically assumed as some 20 - 50% of premises (this was assessed by the Sales Group), and would certainly assume no more than one line per premise.

These flexibility points allowed (obviously) some variation across an area, but there were (are) some cases where there are loads of local wires, but few spare ones to the exchange. In many cases link pairs were provided between cabinets so that the PO could enable service under varying circumstances.

Nowadays, it's even more complicated. Many (even residential) premises have more than one line; others use lines provided by cable TV companies, or purely mobile phones.

Clearly Openreach want to maximise use of their copper (or sometimes aluminium) wires around the place.

[Tony Bryer]

"Free" with a lock-in period?

[The Natural Philosopher]

I dont see why I should pay for someone elses baby, someone elses education, someone elses bloody windmill, and someone elses wars.

I'd settle for a phone line, anyday.