Broadband Cable & Mains Power Cable

It is a long time since I last posted on this forum but I have a dilemma.
I need to bury a mains power cable about 25 Metres in length to my workshop at the bottom of my garden.
At the same time I need to have a Broadband cable to the same workshop.
My question is this, will it have an adverse effect on the Broadband signal if the 2 cables are buried in the same conduit?
The mains power cable will cary only the same as the house circuitry requires.
Regards, Peter.
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On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:43:24 UTC, snipped-for-privacy@googlemail.com wrote:

Probably. But the regs specify a 50mm separation, or an insulating separator. Unless the BB cable is insulated to mains voltages.
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If it's CAT5, it certainly looks like it is.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 19:06:31 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I don't think so. A quick search found a Belden CAT5e cable with a rating of 48Vrms (RS 331-8663).
Personally I'd not run the xDSL signal any further than it absolutely has to. Fit the DSL modem at the NTE and run network cabling to your switch/firewall or WHY.
If you want BB in your garden workshop either run a network cable or two (phone as well?) in a separate conduit(*) or use one of the network over mains devices previously mentioned.
(*) The mains really ought to (must?) be run is SWA and that can be directly buried in sand in a trench so only a conduiut for the LV stuff is required.
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That probably just relates to the inter conductor insulation. Although that too looks pretty chunky. But I was referring to the outer insulation which would be the requirement if alongside a mains cable. Personally I'd be happy to tape it to SWA. ;-)
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On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:50:00 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I don't know what Cat5 cable you have looked at but the insulation around a conductor on normal mains cable is at least twice, probably nearer 4 times as thick as that around a Cat5 core. Similary the outer jacket of Cat5 is thinner than that on a mains cable.
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Why do you say that? The DSL might have come many kilometres from the exchange in an un-screened bundle with hundreds of other pairs and running close to many sources of electrical noise. Why do you suppose that an extra 25 meters is going to be detrimental?
Contrast this with the known distance limitations of 100Mb and Gigabit Ethernet.
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On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:45:09 +0100, Graham wrote:

Experience. I've had different preformance from my ADSL after simply moving the wires around in the junction box and NTE. We are talking very low levels of RF at the upper end of the DSL range, small changes can make significant differences.

As a balanced pair with other balanced pairs, mutual interference is quite low. Induced interference is common mode and should be rejected by the modem. if it's any good.
The DSL signal is "delicate" and easily interfered with, no point in opening any more windows for interference than absolutly neccessary. Where are there more tiny arcs, switching transients etc In the home or under the street?
Proper networking kit is designed to be robust and can be run almost anywhere without much regard to noise sources.
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I apologise for my ignorance but I am now thoroughly confused.
All the discussion about cable resistances etc. mean absolutely nothing to me but I am pleased that it has stimulated a debate about relative values.
Taking this thread to its ultimate: Do you suggest that running both cables side by side or even taped together as one poster suggested, is the way to go, or should I still consider seperate conduit?
I really appreciate the response,
Regards, Peter.
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On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 07:46:04 UTC, " snipped-for-privacy@googlemail.com"

Separate conduit.
1) No guarantee that the cable insulation is suffcient for the reg; I doubt it. And if there were a problem, all your DSL kit would experience mains voltages - and so might you. 2) There may be interference, there may not. Why take the risk?
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Keep them separate and for longer life use a conduit for the signal cable. The thread as usual had drifted into hypothetical discussion.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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snipped-for-privacy@googlemail.com wrote:

It may, it is contrary to how it is supposed to be done, but in reality will usually work without difficulty. You could also use "home plug" devices to do away with the data wire and route the network over the mains instead.
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Cheers,

John.

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<snip>

You could also use "home plug"

How does those network systems avoid sending the data down the 'ring main' in the street, is their something about elecy meters that prevent such transmitting of data or does it work by encrypting the data like (a correctly set up) wireless system?
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The Homeplug devices I bought use encryption (DES I think) so they should be fairly secure. They were very easy to set-up and are completely transparent when in operation - manufacturers of other networking kit could learn a lesson here. I used the Homeplug gear to replace a Cat5 cable running between a house and a barn, removing any earthing/lightning/mice issues related to the Cat5.
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I've been using them here for some time and I found them much better than trying to tear up floors in a listed building.
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snipped-for-privacy@INVALID.INVALID declared for all the world to hear...

Phases has something to do with it. Some basic info on www.solwise.co.uk
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Regards
Jon

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:Jerry: wrote:

They claim to not get out of the property past the meter, but I am not sure if there is any technical reason for this, or if it just comes down to range. They do have encryption, and you can group a number of them into a private network.
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Cheers,

John.

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My thanks to everyone who has responded.
It appears that laying 2 separate cables that are at least 50mm apart min. is the way to go.
I did a Google search on "Homeplugs" and since it appears that 2 plugs are needed the expense is getting prohibitive and the security issues are not very tidy.
My thanks again for your assistance,
Regards, Peter.
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snipped-for-privacy@googlemail.com writes

If it were my shed;)
I have my broadband come in to the gaff then to the modem/router that goes to wherever I want via CAT5, which is very robust and noise immune.
The mains cable goes via a lump of direct bury SWA, the other cables go in some 50 mm ducting that we got from a builders merchants c/w a phone line and an intercom and front door bell, and CCTV signal via an RF modulator.
If their all in the same duct it wouldn't bother me technically at all re insulation and mutual coupling. In fact in an older property there is a cat 5 cable buried underground by itself thats still in fine condition having been there 8 odd years now!.
I'd not bother with the "plugs" for this at all, CAT 5 wired is a much better system...
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On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:22:04 +0100, John Rumm

I'd have thought that the current-measuring bit of the meter would have had sufficient inductance to effectively block most of the RF applied to the line downstream of it.
If you have a section of SWA there's likely enough capacitance between the conductors and the armour wires to limit the performance at RF.
You really have to take an entirely RF-based (capacitance/inductance) assessment of your installation as well as the power-based stuff.
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Frank Erskine
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