blow torch recommendations?

Hello,

I'm looking for a blowtorch to use for end feed connections on DIY plumbing projects; please could you recommend something suitable?

TIA Stephen.

Reply to
Stephen
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Choice of fuel is the most important thing. I've got a Bernzomatic propane jobby, vast improvement on my old butane torch.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Depends on how much you are going to do. For the odd one or two 15 mm fittings, the things which fit disposable gas cylinders are fine IMO. If you want a torch plus hose to fit a separate propane cylinder, there's a wide range, see for example the Bullfinch stuff from bes.co.uk. Here's a sievert kit with a small burner, but this would be fine with a larger burner.

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have a cheap clone of one of the quality sets which came, I think, from Screwfix, but they don't seem to list that now. With the big burner that came with it, it's quite up to bending or silver soldering half inch steel bar: rather more than you'll need for domestic plumbing!

If you are new to this and not doing too much, it might be worth sticking with Yorkshires, certainly for downward facing joints in awkward corners. Don't forget steel wool for cleaning the pipe, and plenty of flux!

Reply to
newshound

I've always bought the cheapest* propane/butane one on the shelf. Has handled replumbing a house all in end-feed copper (including installing full heating system) and soldering up to 28mm copper fittings, without any problems at all.

*Actually, last time I bought one, I forked out an extra couple of quid for push-putton ignition, which saves carrying around a lighter, or rather forgetting it when you've just spent several minutes wriggling on your belly across the house under the floor space, and then finding you can't light the blowlamp.
Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

I wrote this reply a couple of months ago. HTH. BTW, I haven't re-checked all the web links.

In increasing order of performance. (In all cases below, a swirly/cyclone flame burner - if available - is better for soldering copper pipes than a general purpose burner because it allows you to heat the joint from one-side only. i.e. the swirly flame wraps around the pipe).

  1. Basic* butane blow-lamp with a disposable can.
  2. Basic propane/butane blow lamp with a disposable can.
  3. Pro** blow lamp/gas torch with Propane gas in a disposable can.
  4. Pro gas torch with MAPP gas or Ultra gas in a disposable can.
  5. Pro gas torch with refillable propane cylinder (What the trade generally uses for minor jobs/tight spaces).
  6. Pro gas torch with MAPP gas or Ultragas with refillable container.
  7. Torch-on-a-hose with a 3.9kg Propane cylinder. (What the trade uses for all general work).
  • e.g. older-style Taymar
** e.g. Bernzomatic/Rothenberger/Primus/Sievert

===

For top-performance disposable-can work, I can recommend the Primus/Sievert 2335 Powerjet Ultra with 8706 cyclone burner.

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So, what's the difference between a blow-lamp and a gas torch?

Well an old-fashioned 'blow lamp' will have the following features: -

No integrated piezo ignition. (But newer/upscale models now do have this feature). Takes a while to warm up (i.e flares-out if you wave it about before it's warmed up). Definitely won't work upside down before it's warmed up. Probably won't work upside down very well at all (or indeed at any appreciable angle from the vertical). Doesn't have a swirly cyclone gas pattern.

A modern 'gas torch' will have the following features:

Integrated piezo ignition. Instant warm-up. Operation at any angle, including fully inverted without warm-up. Swirly cyclone gas pattern, so you can heat the joint from one side only.

The trade tends to go for the torch-on-a-hose with 3.9kg propane bottle solution because it's the cheapest option and you can get different burners (which go much more powerful than anything with an attached can/bottle).

===

Classic British manufacturer of gas torches with a rubber hose is Bullfinch, but they don't do swirly cyclone burners.

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can also get similar stuff from Primus-Sievert (but with the option of swirly cyclone burners).

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can buy some Primus Sievert (Swedish made) and lots of Clarke-branded (Italian-made) stuff from Machine Mart.

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finally, Lidl currently has a offer on for a (German-made, I think) torch kit for £20 and 2-Bar propane regulator for £10, which is a reasonable deal, although Machine Mart (spit) has a better value deal for a kit with three burners(£26.44):

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of these deals have swirly/cyclone burners.

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Rothenberger is a mixture of re-branded Bernzomatic/Sievert product.

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Bernzomatic product is available from Screwfix and larger B&Q stores.

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if you already have a propane cylinder for some purpose or other, then you may wish to know that most of these torches/burners require a regulator set to 2 Bar.

===

Comments & flames (no pun intended!) welcome. Cheers, Rumble

Reply to
Dave Osborne

Dave Osborne explained on 31/07/2009 :

Mine (Bernzomatic) has a single button for both gas on and ignition, which means you can operate it single handed and as soon as you put it down the flame shuts off. Instant on, instant off. It is also possible to ignite and lock the gas on. Aside from being able to solder, you can also braze with the same torch.

Basically as the flame touches for instance the side of a copper pipe, the flame will curl its way around the circumference of the pipe (right around the back), rather than the rear of the pipe being shielded from the flame.

Reply to
Harry Bloomfield

They are the solder ring type are they?

I'm not convinced they are good for beginners. In theory they should be good for beginners because they contain just the right amount of solder for the joint but that's assuming you get it right first time. When I was a beginner I didn't get it right first time, so I still had to use solder to correct it ;(

I used sandpaper instead of steel wool! Is that bad; at least I don't use hacksaws on plastic pipe ;)

Reply to
Stephen

That's what I had before. Unfortunately the nozzle keeps falling off. Sometimes you get a warning as the flame turns green when the nozzle leans into the flame but often it just rolls across the floor, melting whatever is in its way!

Reply to
Stephen

Thanks, there have been a couple of mentions of Benzomatic so far. I see some are sold at Screwfix. Is your model one of them? The one benzomatic model that has some reviews is rated rather poorly, which had put me off. the others are currently unrated.

It is for occasional DIY plumbing only so I don't think I need a separate cylinder.

BTW what do you do with chrome pipe? I use compression but does anyone remove the chrome and solder?

Thanks again.

Reply to
Stephen

If all you're going to use it for is this on a DIY basis a medium sized one that uses disposable cylinders will be fine. For heavy use (including say burning off paint) one which uses a refillable container will have cheaper running costs. But be much larger to store, etc.

I'm still using an ancient Camping Gas one - takes the solid canisters which get punctured when you fit them. Never found it lacking. Although I don't use lead free solder.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

There are cleaner strips from Screwfix and B&Q etc - don't get bits in your skin like ww, last far longer than sandpaper and easier to grip. I'll not use anything else these days.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Thanks for a detailed reply. looking on Screwfix one review of a MAPP torch says: "Gets very hot and can almost be used with wet pipes if you know the tricks."

What are the tricks for wet pipes and why don't they work with butane or propane torches?

Reply to
Stephen

I've got a Bernzomatic, two in fact. TBH they're rather over-priced for what they are. But the useful feature to me was the ability to use MAPP gas for brazing and the ability to have a separate tank, which although you think you don't need, you will when you try getting into some restricted spaces. Not every fitting goes neatly into a location with good access all round.

That said, there are competitors and they tend to be about 1/2 the price.

If you go for a Bernzomatic type torch then you have the choice. They make torch heads that screw onto the gas cylinder and ones with a rubber hose that allow you to work with the cylinder outside the work area.

The cylinders are, in my experience, much cheaper at Toolstation than at Screwfix.

Reply to
Steve Firth

When I was replumbing the entire house, I used one of those tools that deburs and cleans in one go. It saved a lot of time. They are a blue plastic "thingy" that looks like a large cotton reel. The inside has a wire brush fitted with lots of short wires which do a good job of polishing the tube. Push it firmly into the open end and at the back of the device is a hardened steel file that deburs. Rotate the tube a few times and it comes out clean and deburred ready for soldering. A fitting brush takes care of the other side of the joint.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Note the "almost" in the above comment...

The tricks are: -

  1. If there is water dripping out/running through the pipe then it will
*not* solder because the water *will* conduct the heat away - whatever blow torch you are using.

  1. Under certain circumstances (e.g. you're temporarily capping off a supply which is only a short distance away from a closed valve), the heat will turn any water in the pipe into steam and the steam will blow your joint apart.

However...

  1. If the pipe is trickling/dripping a tiny bit of water, then you can stuff a bit of bread up the pipe. The bread will absorb the water for long enough for you to solder the joint, then when you open a valve upstream, the bread will be forced out of the pipe. You need to do this in circumstances where you know where the bits of bread are going to pop out; i.e. you don't want them to get stuck in the gubbins of a fancy tap mechanism, etc.

It should be said that there's nothing wrong with a compression joint - they last just as long as solder joints. They're just bigger and more expensive. There should be no "shame" in opting for a compression joint where you have a pipe with water in - it's a whole lot easier.

Reply to
Dave Osborne

If a tube is merely damp any torch will dry it out. If water is dripping it will turn to steam and blow holes through your solder.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Does lead free make a difference? I would be using it for drinking water, so I would be wanting lead free. I guess if you do a lot of plumbing it works out cheaper to have a roll of each but for me, I think I would be best with just one roll of lead free. Thanks.

Reply to
Stephen

I hadn't though of this. I had thought the pipe would be empty because it's open at the end you are working on but then I realised that I was only thinking of horizontal pipes. I guess vertical ones would be full of water.

I was halfway there, I was thinking the steam passing through the joint would prevent soldering; I didn't realise it was strong enough to blow the joint off. Why doesn't the steam take the path of least resistance and go though the 15mm bore rather than the microscopic space between the fitting and pipe?

That's worth knowing, thanks.

Good. My house had hundreds of them before I became more confident with solder!

Thanks for all the replies.

Reply to
Stephen

You don't have a choice for drinking water you must use lead free solder.

es, it's different to lead-based solder, it's slightly more difficult to use since it doesn't "wet" the copper as easily as a lead based solder. However the difference is slight and unless you're used to soldering with lead solder you won't notice the difference.

Reply to
Steve Firth

They were in one of the sheds last time I looked. Grey rather than the old blue. But have a couple of spares anyway. Only thing I dislike about it is if it's on a high setting with a full canister and you tilt it down too far it blows out. Otherwise it does what it says on the tin. The clip on solder bolt can be useful too. I did buy a newer one which took a conventional cylinder and had spark ignition but it leaked away the contents of the cylinder in short order. So I've stuck to the ol' one.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

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