Black Mould Problem

Our bungalow has a small pantry in one corner of the kitchen and we seem to get black Mould in one corner and this year with all the rain it seems wor se. The pantry is situated in the NE corner of the house, the walls are cav ity filled and there is no evidence of damp, the pantry is vented with a si ngle wall vent.
My feeling is the Mould is due to condensation and the question is whether to seal the vent or not as I feel this is the source of damp air getting in and the air being cool the reason the condensation is happening. Unfortune tly the kitchen is not the warmest room in the house heated by a Myson kick board heater, neither is it well ventilated relying on an open window when cooking.
The improvement to the heating and ventilation of the kitchen is awaiting t he replacement of the kitchen sometime in the next two years. In the meanti me I need a solution to the Mould problem, I have bought a dehumidifier to help with RH. What is the consensus of the group regards sealing the vent? I know that good ventilation is the key to removing damp air thus controlli ng condensation but this vent seems to be the source of the cold/damp air a nd the cooling the reason condensation is occuring.
Richard
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On 23/01/2016 12:08, Tricky Dicky wrote:

> and this year with all the rain it seems worse. The pantry is situated in the NE corner of the house, > the walls are cavity filled and there is no evidence of damp, the pantry is vented with a single wall vent.
Are you sure it is black mould and not very dark green photosynthetic algae? The latter tends to be more common since a mould needs something to live on whereas the algae just needs a damp surface.
--
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Martin Brown
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On Saturday, 23 January 2016 12:08:21 UTC, Tricky Dicky wrote:

to get black Mould in one corner and this year with all the rain it seems w orse. The pantry is situated in the NE corner of the house, the walls are c avity filled and there is no evidence of damp, the pantry is vented with a single wall vent.
mould can only occur due to a damp problem. It is a damp problem.

sounds most likely

source of damp air getting in
This is a popular misconception. Dampness originates indoors, not outside. Indoor air is outdoor air plus water vapour from cooking, breathing, bathin g, clothes drying etc. It feels drier because it's warmer, and warm air can hold more vapour, but it still contains more vapour.

etly the kitchen is not the warmest room in the house heated by a Myson kic k board heater, neither is it well ventilated relying on an open window whe n cooking.
kitchen dampness is often caused by hob cooking on excessive power. Minimum power & a lid usually does the job once boiling.

the replacement of the kitchen sometime in the next two years. In the mean time I need a solution to the Mould problem, I have bought a dehumidifier t o help with RH.
Consider it done

good ventilation is the key to removing damp air thus controlling condensat ion but
exactly

reason condensation is occuring.
making it cold is an issue. If you run a dehumidifier you probably won't ne ed extra ventilation at all.
NT
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On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 04:26:09 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

+1 to all of that. The cold air coming in through the vent is going to be holding less water than the air in the pantry, because the air in the pantry is almost certainly warmer and originating from the rest of the house. Nor will the cold air from outside condense on the pantry wall, because the pantry wall will be warmer than the cold air coming in.
We get a lot of black mould on walls in Cornwall, simply because the humidity is always high down here, inside and out, due to the proximity of the sea. Mould grows on the insides of cold outside walls, particularly where there's no air circulation, i.e. behind wardrobes, free-standing cupboards, or pictures. To start with, try just a circulating fan to stir the air and keep it moving, as a cheaper alternative to a dehumidifier. If that doesn't work, then by all means use a dehumidifier.
--

Chris

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wrote:

Is Cornwall the only place in the UK that is next to the sea and is all of Cornwall next to the sea:-)?
--
Adam


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On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 15:40:57 -0000, "ARW"

Well, no, I will concede that there are other seaside places in the UK. :-) But Cornwall is a long narrow peninsula, and nowhere is more than twenty miles from the sea, so you could reasonably say that all of Cornwall is next to the sea. With the wind blowing predominantly off the sea, humidity is always high.
--

Chris

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On 23/01/2016 12:08, Tricky Dicky wrote:

Put an electric fan in the vent hole?
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

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On 23/01/2016 13:09, David Lang wrote:

Problem is, the aforesaid warm indoor air cools at night and will condense on the coldest surface. Not helped by 92% RH outside here today at 16.00 hrs
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On Saturday, 23 January 2016 16:16:01 UTC, stuart noble wrote:

the other problem is the silly cost of all the heat chucked out
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On Saturday, 23 January 2016 12:08:21 UTC, Tricky Dicky wrote:

to get black Mould in one corner and this year with all the rain it seems w orse. The pantry is situated in the NE corner of the house, the walls are c avity filled and there is no evidence of damp, the pantry is vented with a single wall vent.

r to seal the vent or not as I feel this is the source of damp air getting in and the air being cool the reason the condensation is happening. Unfortu netly the kitchen is not the warmest room in the house heated by a Myson ki ck board heater, neither is it well ventilated relying on an open window wh en cooking.

the replacement of the kitchen sometime in the next two years. In the mean time I need a solution to the Mould problem, I have bought a dehumidifier t o help with RH. What is the consensus of the group regards sealing the vent ? I know that good ventilation is the key to removing damp air thus control ling condensation but this vent seems to be the source of the cold/damp air and the cooling the reason condensation is occuring.

Well if you are running a dehumidifier letting moist air in from outside wo n't help. The problem is when warm moist air meets cold air or cold surface condensat ion occurs. So you have to keep the moist air out as the pantry must remain cold.
Hard to do in practice, this why pantries have fallen out of favour. So better to have a fridge, do way with the pantry and seal up the vent. Pr operly with insulation and without thermal bridge. The black mould is hard to get rid of once established. You need several attacks with bleach or algicide (from a builders merchant/ Screwfix.)
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On 24/01/2016 08:26, harry wrote:
<snip> > Hard to do in practice, this why pantries have fallen out of favour.

You can get bleach from almost anywhere, but I'm struggling to find algicide on Screwfix.
Is black mould really an algae?
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On 24/01/2016 12:32, David Lang wrote:

Is that an "algecide? It looks more like a fungicide.
Hence my question to Harry:

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OK I have just taped some cooking foil to the wall, don't know if it will t ell us much as I am not getting as good a seal from the tape as I think is required. What I did notice while clearing some stuff out of the way to acc ess the mouldiest part was that there was condensation on some bottles of w ater that SWAMBO had stored, is that telling us something regards where the moisture is coming from.
As an aside my parents last house was a new build in the mid 60s and it too had a pantry albeit bigger but vented like ours and it was painted with gl oss paint likewise I remember were some of the neighbours. Was this because Mould was inevitable and glossing the walls made it easier to deal with? A t our last house the kitchen was an extension added on by the previous owne rs and the original kitchen was used to enlarge what was then the dining ro om, I noticed there that the walls of the original kitchen had been glossed ?
Richard
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The house in which I grew up was built in 1954 and had a pantry with a window covered in mesh, rather than glass and, I am sure, a vent near floor level, the idea being to introduce a constant flow of air with warm air exiting the window and cold air entering the vent. I don't remember any condensation problems, although the door to the pantry was just outside, rather than inside, the kitchen, and the house was not centrally heated until shortly before I moved out.
--
Graeme

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On Sunday, 24 January 2016 15:18:02 UTC, Fredxxx wrote:

Dunno but the stuff I've bought was label algecide. More info here.
http://www.fixmyroof.co.uk/videos-and-guides/condensation-cure/how-to-clean-mould/
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On 24/01/2016 17:06, harry wrote:

Yep, no algicide mentioned there either.
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On 24/01/2016 12:14, Fredxxx wrote:

Mould is a fungus, algae a (single celled, usually, but not when it's seaweed) plant. But I wouldn't count on correct identification.
Andy
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On 24/01/2016 21:42, Vir Campestris wrote:

Harry made the distinction and I would have said black mould was a fungi. I have always associated algae with continuously wet places, not ones that cycle between wet and dry. The exception is lichen which is a composite algae-fungal structure.
I was hoping for a more detailed explanation from Harry of why you would go out of your way to buy an algicide to remove a fungus.
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Pantries on north walls were sometimes built without the cavity to make them cooler. Check if the wall in the pantry is further back than the internal walls either side.

This is quite easy to test. Stick a large square of aluminium foil to the wall where the mold is worst with wide tape around the edge to form an airtight seal. Leave it there a few days. Then inspect it carefully. If there's condensation on the room side of the foil, then the damp problem is condensation. If not, peel the tape off the wall and check the rear (wall side) of the foil. If there's condensation on the rear, then it's penetrating damp.

The fix will depend heavily if its condensation or penetrating damp. Hence you need to check that first.
Also, how well insulated in the larder from the kitchen, and how well sealed against air-flow?
Like another user said, boiling pans on the hob with open lids and/or too high a flame could be a big factor too, although I've given up trying to stop various members of my family doing this.
--
Andrew Gabriel
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