bee swarm question for the bee experts

Even though the swarm clusters on a site (in this case a branch) some bees will still be flying off, mostly 'scouting' to find a new home. The branch is only a temporary stop to help them, as it were, assess the situation :-)

When the information about a suitable location has been transmitted to the colony (by 'dancing' on the surface of the cluster) the whole lot will zoom off with no delay. This is different from the swirling flight round the branch while the cluster is settling. There's no hanging about, they mean business.

But some of the scouts haven't returned, when they do they have no idea where their sisters and mother (the 'queen') have gone, they've been abandoned. Some might remember where they came from (the hive) but returning to the old site is unusual. However, because individual bees can't live long without the colony they will die after, say, a couple of days.

It's Nature!

Mary

In article , Mary Fisher writes

Thanks Mary, that is interesting to know. I ask because my wife is a bit worried they are setting up home there, but I've sat and watched them and I don't think they are, it's just the same few bees circling around the branch.

Maybe I can use them for bee aversion therapy for her. She knows it's silly to be scared of bees but for some reason she just can't get over it.

Yes, poor little homeless waifs :-(

No, don't. I'm not criticising your wife but in this situation it's just as well that she doesn't go near them.

As I said, they can't live long without the colony, worse, without the colony cohesion the bees are, in our terms, distressed. They could be very defensive. Swarming bees are the most gentle (in our terms) imaginable, they don't want to defend anything, they have no brood to care for, they're full of honey so it's difficult for them to position their tails so that they can sting - beekeepers often run their hands through a cluster. But when they've been alone for a day or so, without that 'support', no home and totally disoriented, they can be very different.

It's a dependence on the chemical which we unimaginatively call 'queen substance' (I do know the chemical name if you want it!) which the queen exudes and is passed round the colony continuously, to every bee both within the hive and outside it while in a swarm. It's a marvellous process. If a queen is removed from a colony, within as short a time as twenty minutes the bees are unhandleable, defensive, can sting for apparently no reason.

So keep your wife away from those few waifs, they won't be there long. If she were stung by one it could confirm her fears about all bees and that would be a shame.

Mary

In article , Mary Fisher writes

OK will do, thanks for the warning!

Is this chemical (pheramone?) individual per queen?

In other words, in cases where there are multiple colonies in a small area such as a group of hives, is it used by the bees to identify which is their colony as opposed to others?

It is a pheromone of course and no, it's universal. There are other things to consider when replacing one queen with another in a hive but it's nothing to do with queen substance.

No, that's geography and vision related. If you have two hives, left and right, side by side and you switch them the bees from left A will return to right, and vice versa, after foraging.

If you remove one they will all return to the other. If you introduce a third it causes some confusion!

The same applies to even a long line of hives - but it's not recommended to do site them like that because of drifting. The hive at the windward end always ends up lighter than the one at the leeward end.

Some beekeepers mark the front of each hive with simple shapes for identification. positioning the hives in different aspects is another ploy.

Visible landmarks are more important than anything else. Remember that multiple colonies in a small area isn't the norm, honey bees are woodland creatures and their natural home is a hollow tree.

Pheromones are only effective inside the hive.

I hope this helps :-)

Mary

Yes it does. I've always wondered about this. In my early 20s I used to help a couple of elderly ladies (then well into their 90s and sadly no longer with us) with their gardening. They had a plot of land equivalent to that for three extra houses next to theirs near the town centre. They grew vegetables, kept many hives (randomly placed) as well as the proverbial chickens of course, and some rabbits for the table. Visiting them was a delight because it was like going back to the 1920s. Their house hadn't been redecorated since their father had done it then and they saw no reason to change it or the orginal lino everywhere.

In the summer months they would often camp out on their piece of land with an older army tent and camp beds.

I was shown the beekeeping equipment, the pride piece of which was a mechanical extractor looking like a kind of spindryer with a big handle like a mangle. How on earth they operated it, I don't know, but they did. However, they would never tell me some of the Deeper Magic of beekeeping, and hive placement was one of them.

Now I know, and I am pretty sure that they did as well.

Sounds like most of our house! What's the point of fixing it if it ain't broke?

Oh wonderful! I wish we had room for that. Especially these last two nights :-(

There's a 'cage' inside into wish the wooden frames containing honeycomb are fitted. The wax capping which seal the honey into cells is sliced off each side first. When the handle is wound the cage turns and honey is thrown out of the combs.

There are three types, the 'radial' holds combs at right angles to the centre spindle. It's unlikely that theirs was that kind. The others are 'tangential', where the frames are parallel to the sides of the drum. In one tangential type you have to remove the frames to turn them round to extract the other face of the comb. There's an older version - I had one and loved it, whereby when you reverse the direction of the handle an ingenious device turns the individual cages to expose the other side of the frames to the drum. It's not easy to explain ...

Some people are very secretive, it's a shame but in a way I can understand it. It does make you seem very clever, almost mystic, part of a secret cult, if you don't give everything away!

I suspect so. The very fact that they randomly placed hives shows that.

Mary

Just out of interest, has that house now been demolished and a block of affordable housing (i.e. overpriced, ugly flats) with insufficient parking built in its place?

This bee thread has been fascinating!

In article , Geoffrey writes

Just to complete the story of the "Left behind" bees, they have all now gone as Mary said they would. Occasionally a passing bee will visit the branch where the swarm was and then fly on.

So your wife's safe and happy :-)

Thanks for the update.

Mary

In article , Mary Fisher writes

Indeed. I think she was envisioning having to stay out of the garden for the rest of the summer.

Ah, they will be special bee baliffs trying to collect overdue rent for the hive the others all left 'in a hurry' because of illegal honey trading.

T i m ;-)

You haven't been taking notice of the lecture, have you!

Go stand in a corner and I'll deal with you later ...

Mary

I think that the house is probably still there, but I believe that the land was sold for development into overpriced ugly flats with no parking.

So's it going to be a whacking or a caning?

Enquiring minds need to know.....

As a fine Yorkshire woman, I expect Mary will be taking 'er belt off to 'im.

Which would be preferred by the miscreant?

Mary

Don't wear 'em. But I have my Grandad's military belt from the Great War which has occasionally been utilised.

Mary