Apprenticeship? What a joke!

Your prejudices are showing.

Really? Some of my best friends are from Islington...

On Wednesday 17 July 2013 08:55 GB wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Someone has to do these jobs, and if they feel pride in it, then fair play to them!

Quite. Not everyone has the nouse to be a theoretical phycisist and the streets won't clean themselves. It's the people who don't value the "rubbish collectors" that drag society down.

But somebody has to do it I guess. I often think that people who are willing to do messy jobs get paid too little and those who push bits of paper about get paid too much!

Brian

In article , Tim Watts writes

The lie is that they have not undergone an apprenticeship, have not learned any kind of trade or craft from a master. Compare with apprentices to plumbers, electricians, carpenters, metalworkers, blacksmiths and so on, they are simply unskilled manual labourers with no recognised trade.

Sorry guys, but you're missing my point. There's nothing wrong with the job itself. I entirely agree that someone has to do it, and I'd be happy enough to do it myself (for a while at least).

However, I *strongly* object to calling it an apprenticeship, as if these guys were being trained over a long period of time in a skilled trade. It's the sort of job that used to involve no formal training and now probably involves a few days, mostly on H&S aspects.

These so-called apprenticeships then get added to the statistics, as if we were training more skilled tradesmen, such as electricians/plumbers/tool-makers, etc. It's just a con.

I'm sorry that that was not clearer from my first post.

Thank you! That was precisely my point, although I obviously did not make it very well.

It was perfectly clear, some just enjoy taking issue.

Apprenticeship Ap*pren"tice*ship, n. 1. The service or condition of an apprentice; the state in which a person is gaining instruction in a trade or art, under legal agreement.

1. The time an apprentice is serving (sometimes seven years, as from the age of fourteen to twenty-one).

Andy C

Aren't all local rags like this, though? I know our free one is full of s**te like this. I think they call them puff pieces. Tell everyone how wonderful they are, so that they'll keep reading it, and not wonder about how it's paid for.

Hear, hear.

People who sneer at rubbish collectors and the like should ask themselves "Would I do that job?"

that isn't the point though is it

the point is that someone has lied about the fact that they are offering an apprenticeship in order to get this job done at sub-minimum wage

tim

Is it really below minimum wage?

I expect the real reason that these jobs are described as "apprenticeships" is to get a subsidy.

You made it well enough. But you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Bill

Your entrenched political and social viewpoint has prevented you from understanding the purpose of the original message. The OP was making the point that young working class people are being conned into believing that being used for unskilled work amounts to an apprenticeship. In other words, his message was in support of the underprivileged. Your knee-jerk reaction, once that has been understood, was extremely foolish.

Bill

Don't be sorry! Tell them to bollocks if they can't be bothered to read and understand.

Bill

Provided they work alongside experienced staff, gain job-specific skills, earn a wage and study towards a related qualification (for example NVQ Level 2 Waste Management Operations) then they have completed an apprenticeship within the Government definition.

Colin Bignell

Which could all be done in a fornight, but in no way complies with any reasonable understanding of an apprenticeship and is therefore a con, whether or not the government pretend so or not.

Andy C

I didn't think it was legal to employ anyone under the age of 16 for such a scheme. I've always assumed Apprenticeships are in house adn the person isn;t sent to a 3rd party for training.