Is it true that from April next year new regulations will mean that condensating boilers (I think thats the term he used) will have to be installed rather than combi-boilers and that these are even more expensive?
Also, if you were faced with a £385 repair bill for a 12yo CelticFF boiler or £1380 to fit a new worcester combi-boiler which would you go for and why?
The requirement will be that new or replacement boilers will have to have a minimum seasonal efficiency (SEDBUK rating) of at least 86%, unless one of a limited number of reasons prevents that.
Boilers need to be of condensing technology to achieve that - most are in the 90-91% area. If you look at
Don't confuse a combi boiler with condensing or not.
Boilers can be combi (with and without storage) or not (which generally means a system boiler if it has a pump, but it may be basic and not have that). Any of these types can be condensing or not.
Is this a price from British Gas? If so, shop elsewhere is the first point - they are very expensive for mediochre service at best.
If you are going to go for a condensing version of the Worcester and you are happy with the flow rate, then yes, or by the price, is this a non-condensing one?
The Celtic has a SEDBUK efficiency of 70% which is very poor by today's standards.
A non-condensing Worcester-Bosch will get you to about 79% or so, and the condensing version about 90%.
I would spend the money on a new condensing model if you are planning to stay in the house for a while, (maybe 5 years), if medium term, go for the non-condensing, if short term, pay for the repair.
It's pretty easy to calculate the paybacks on the gas bill.
.andy
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Not right. In April all boilers must be 86% or over in SEDBUK efficiency. Only condensing boilers meet this to date.
A combi is one box solution with heating and water all in one box. Not applicable as many of these are condensers too.
The Worcester. New, guaranteed, and delivers instant hot water, saving space in the house by eliminating cylinders and tanks.
Only when in condensing mode. As soon as input temperature goes above 40-50 deg C there's very little condensing action and then works like an efficient non-condensing boiler.
Not quite. Even when the return temp is above due point the efficiency is higher as the heat exchanger is just plain larger.
To be exact, the efficiency is inversely proportional to the return water temperature. Below the 54 degree dew point, efficiency increases at a greater rate with reducing temperature than it does above. It is not true to suggest that an orgasm of increased efficiency occurs at the dew point. There is simply a knee in the curve at the point where heat begins to be recovered from the latent heat of condensation.
It isn't really true to say either that efficiency is like a conventional boiler above the dew point, since the latter are optimised to operate at 82 degrees flow, 70 degrees return and are not designed to be run below this to avoid condensing.
A condensing boiler can operate over a flow temperature range from as little as 40 degrees on some models up to 85 degrees, so considering seasonal variations and requirements it can be in a greater range of efficiency for more of the time, whether actually condensing or not.
.andy
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And one reason there needs to be but currently isn't is if you have a septic tank. Draining the condensate into that stops it's action dead so you would need to install a second sealed tank to take the condensate. But as it's now concentrated as far as I could find nowbody will deal with collecting it. In the end we fitted a non-condensing boiler.
I'm surprised that there would be enough volume of condensate to do that, and it is only mildly acidic.....
.andy
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How about draining Coca Cola or bleach into it? Will that stop its action dead?
Bleach is an absolute no-no !!!!! As are quite a few household cleaners. Worst of all is fat and oil as they float on the top and block oxygen from the waste. We have a separate drain for all such waste into fifty gallon barrels.
So was I. Didn't think of it at first until one of the people who came to quote (but then didn't) mentioned it. So phoned a few septic tank cleaners and all said best to avoid. Don't think it's so much the actual acidity as it is diluted in a huge amount of water but more if it reacts with other waste and prevents normal tank action. This probably needs some proper research done (soon!) otherwise this will worry many more users come next year whereas now there is an easy option of just not doing it.
true
Well drain the condensate into that.
Then nobody will collect it as it isn't classed as household waste anymore.
Instead it appears to have ot be classed as industrial chemical waste and that's a whole different type of company who isn't going to come to a farm to get small barrels.
I think mine said it could be run into a soakaway (rain water gully).
Yet another example of "joined up government".
MBQ
When your barrels are full you get them emptied.
that is the best option. Just run the condedsnsate drain to a soakaway in the garden.
According to a graph on the Keston website the fall off in efficiency is progressive rather than sudden - and I would be surprised if the same were not true for non-Keston boilers. And for much of the spring and autumn the heating is coming on intermittently so the system runs in condensing mode for much of the time. IME you get the sort of saving you would expect from the figures, i.e. a new condensing boiler as compared to its new non-condensing equivalent will cut fuel bills by about 10%
This may be greater if the system is engineered to take advantage of a condensing boiler.
This may be greater if the system is engineered to take advantage of a condensing boiler.
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