Am I being ripped off?

[Dave Sharp]

Victorian mid-terraced house, 10ft high ceilings, and 6 rooms in all, including bathroom and kitchen. House is empty and being completely renovated and because I can't always be there, all trades have their own keys to come and go as they please so I don't know exactly how much time people are spending on site, or when.

The house is being completely rewired and, although not part of the rewire, as the sparky will already have floorboards up etc., etc., and I haven't got the time or the energy to do it myself, I ask him to do some extra work and run a TV aerial coax, a Cat5 cable for computers and a seperate Cat5 for phone, from each of the four main rooms back to a central point (in this case, that means under the stairs). I also ask him to cable up for 6 smoke alarms (1 in each main room + hall and landing) and a heat alarm in the kitchen.

I've provided the coax, the Cat5, the RJ45s etc., and will be doing the terminations myself, and I've also provided the heat/smoke alarms. He has provided 12 metal back boxes and the mains cabling (lets round it up to a

*very* generous 50 metres - in reality it's nowhere near that amount) for the alarms (T&E from CU to first one then 3core&E for the interconnects).

Before the job started, sparky tells me he hires himself out at £100 a day - fair enough, I said, and I have no qualms whatsoever regarding his main bill for the rewire. But when he handed me the bill for the completed job yesterday, he's charged £440 for the extra work. Now, allowing £40 for 12 back boxes and 50m of cable, that leaves £400 = 4 full 8-hour days = 32 hours!!! Surely it can't have taken that long???

I know that some of you will be saying that "£100 a day is cheap. I charge £30 an hour so think yourself lucky" but that's not the point. The point here is, should the work I've described take that long given that floorboards are already up etc., etc., etc., or is he ripping me off for this extra work?

TIA Dave

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If the work was done correctly, the signal cables will have been kept separate from any mains wiring involving creating new runs.

[John McLean]

[Dave Sharp]

Not Part (taking the) P registered nor eastern european but building control (electricians) came out to inspect at first fix and will come again to do final testing and inspection.

But that is not the issue and it doesn't answer the question I asked.

Dave.

[Dave Sharp]

Fair enough Dave, I can understand that. But if we allocate a full 8-hour working day to running the cables for the heat/smoke alarms, that still leaves 3 8-hour days to fit 12 back boxes and run a cable from each to a central point under the stairs?

BTW, I know he uses an electric wall chaser and he has box sinker attachments for his SDS drill so it's not like he's having to do these things with a lump hammer and bolster.

Dave.

[fred]

In article , Dave Sharp writes

I think that's ok.

[Set Square]

Dunno, but I bet that - next time - you'll get a quote *before* authorising extra work!

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

Try hiring Manweb next time...you'll soon see who's ripping you off.

-- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

[Hugh]

Dave, I reckon there's more than one way of looking at it. Firstly, and not aswering your question, you should have asked how much extra, beforehand, so it's a lesson learned. Electricians tend to set a price according to how many points (sockets)- irrespective of how easy or difficult the job will be, maybe that's what he's done - neglecting to take into account that all the hard graft has been done - having said that it doesn't tally with his £100 per day claim.

Imagine you got in a different electrician for this extra work only - I believe that price is probably realistic for that number of 'points' installed. Perhaps he underquoted a bit on the main job in order to get it , and priced up the extra accordingly. A bit like a restaurant - bread and butter is the food (er, ignore the pun) the money is made on the extras, drinks and desserts etc. all grossly over-priced.

Have you confronted him? How about ' I think your charge for the extras is a bit steep, are you prepared to drop it by a hundred?'

How much was the original mains re-wire by the way? I don't think you should look at the extra work as how easy it was for him, but rather whether you are happy with the work, and what you may be charged by someone else doing that job alone - I'm fairly sure it would be around that or more - unless you are in the trade - I'd expect to pay around £800-900 for a full re-wire of a 3 bedroom house, at a guess £2000 is a more realistic 'retail' price.

Hugh ps hope that makes you feel a bit better!!

[John McLean]

interconnects).

Without the "spurs", a full rewire cost depends on the locality, for a 3 bed probably a minimum of 2500, if done to BS7671 with certification. To install a modern cu with mcb's and rcd on it's own would cost 350 minimum. Jaymack

[Dave Sharp]

Although I said the work was "extra" to the main rewire, he knew about it right at the beginning before ever starting work in the house - I didn't add it on after. He said he would work for £100/day no matter what I wanted doing.

Dave.

[Dave Sharp]

Dear Sir Benjamin, it doesn't matter in the slightest what Manweb charge. I asked him how much he would charge for rewiring the house and the extra work as well and he said that he would do it for £100/day - all of it. I didn't force him to work for £100/day - it was his suggestion and he stuck to it.

All I need to know is, would it honestly take 32 hours ie, 4 full 8-hour working days to fit 12 back boxes, run a cable from each box to a central point under the stairs and to cable for the heat/smoke alarms, considering that the floorboards were already up and he uses such labour-saving devices as an electric wall chaser and a box-sinker attachment on his SDS drill?

Dave.

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

He worked for a £100 a day, how much did he charge for the rewire materials i.e cable,CU, ect? did he do a second fix? First fix usually takes 2 days, second fix about the same, where not getting all the info here.

-- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

[Dave Sharp]

Although I said the work was "extra" to the main rewire, he knew about it right at the beginning before ever starting work in the house - I didn't add it on after. He said he would work for £100/day no matter what I wanted doing.

I'm going to see him tonight to discuss it with him but I just thought I'd see what you people here thought first.

£2100

I can see your point Hugh and yes, someone else would probably charge me more but I don't really see that is relevant. He, not me, said that he would do everything including the extra for £100/day and I just don't see that cabling for the heat/smoke alarms, fitting 12 back boxes and running a cable from each of them to a central point under the stairs, should take approximately 32 hours of labour.

Dave.

[Dave Sharp]

[Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)]

Will you post the right way up and trim to contxt?

[David Hearn]

I think that is your problem in this situation. No one was around to monitor his working, so you have no idea whether he's been on site for 1 day, or 100 days. It could be he's fully aware of that, and taken advantage somewhat - or he's rounded up. £100 per day or part day. Turns up for an hour or two in the morning and bills the £100. He may also have worked out the average price for that sort of work, and then just billed for the amount of days which would cover that price.

I've no experience at doing this sort of this - but I would probably have monitored the workings of the contractors, unless I had a previous experience of them and knew they were trustworthy - but then I'm a suspicious person by nature!

D

[Dave Sharp]

You may well be right there David. It's a lesson learned and if I ever do all this again I'll try to do it better, although I'll still be governed by the laws of physics - can't be in two places at the same time :o)

Dave

[chris French]

In message , Dave Sharp writes

As a general rule I think a fixed price for the job is better approach than a daily rate.

1. there is no incentive for them to 'drag it out'
2. you don't have the problem of monitoring daily
3. It makes budget control easier

4.

[David Hearn]

But remember - a cowboy CAN defy the laws of physics - he can be in 2 places at once (unsupervised) and bill both customers for the same day's (lack of) work. ;)

D