Right. I installed Plex on my Synology NAS and ... sorry, the whole thing has left me so frustrated John that I'll have to come back to you tomorrow ... ;-(
If it was a separate box I would have smashed it by now, simply for the pleasure it would have given me (and I rarely get to that position with *any* tech).
(And it so far has only reinforced how I hate things that try to make stuff easier for you and seem to remove all forms of control as they do so (so you can't then seem to fix / check things when they don't work *automagically*).
Right, so took a mug of tea upstairs and ran up another W10 client. I uninstalled the Plex app from the NAS and restarted and re-installed. Didn't help.
I uninstalled it again and this time also remove the auto generated Plex user account and folder, re-started and this time got back to the configuration screen I was looking for most of the evening. ;-(
So, after dining the Plex user access to my video media folder and giving it some some to scan the media in and download the Metadata for it, I was able to open a client on my phone or PC and see and run some media.
However, a rip of 'Life of Brian' that plays perfectly directly off the share on the PC with VLC but is a bit stuttery and with some burbled audio when playing it though the Plex client?
Turning on the DNLA option on the Plex server enabled my old Tosh TV to see it and run some media from it. Some said 'Media Playback Error' when you tried. An episode of 'The Grand Tour' played ok (sound and video) on the TV but was distorted on the PC (but PC was only a quad core Atom).
So, not I can get back to the settings and the 'More' option to show my Server, I can carry on exploring. ;-)
Not having a synology box to hand I can't try it... However you sometimes find doing a manual download of the relevant server package from the plex web site, and then installing manually that on the device, gets better results (i.e. a more recent version) than going through the built in app store hosted by the provider of the store...
(ISTR on QNAP, plex was something you can automagically install - but to upgrade the server (which it prompts you do do in its web interface from time to time, I need to download from the link provided, but then go to the app managed in the QNAP web interface and do a manual install of the package)
This is presumably the server rather than the client on the NAS?
ok that is a start...
If you look at the settings in the server web interface while its playing, what does it tell you about it?
If you click on the settings icon (spanner / scredriver), then the server on the left, then Dashboard. It will show what is currently being played out to clients. So for example, I am playing a HD move to a web browser based client here. If you click on the circled control it expands out a bit more detail:
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That will show how its playing and if its trying to transcode etc. In this case on mine its just playing the file directly.
You can scroll down a bit to see the network bandwidth in use:
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And further still to see the CPU load and RAM being used by the server:
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That should give a bit of an idea where the problem is...
Is there a plex client for the TV?
(IME the DLNA playback apps are often not that great)
It takes relatively little oomph to play video on any PC made in the last 10 years. (running the film full screen, in firefox was taking between 1 and 3% of CPU load on a oldish i5 machine.
In reply to your other reply ... I now feel calmer to explain better (what I can remember). ;-)
I initially installed the inbuilt Plex server on the Synology NAS and think that redirected me to a new browser windows that allowed me to name it (Plex1), choose library folders and the like. It created folder called 'Plex', I created one called 'PlexShare' but when I went to access the served media it asked me to log in and because I didn't seem to be getting anywhere without, I uninstalled it off the NAS.
Yesterday I copied a wodge of video, films and recorded TV (just single file stuff) off my WHS to the Plex server 'PlexShare' folder and once completed I re-installed Plex server on the NAS. Initially I couldn't see any of it via Plex but then I gave the Plex user access to my PlexShare media folder and stuff started to work. ;-)
Just for the SnG's I give the old Toshiba TV a go and to my surprise it saw the Servio and Windows Media shares on my WHS and also the Plex shared media and was able to play some of it.
I think it was as I started to try the other client machines I noted I'd made a typo on my email / login address so se about changing it on the server and was the same on all the clients etc.
Then it all seemed to turn to s*1t where I couldn't get back into the Plex Server config or shared media options. I then selected Plex off the NAS, rebooted it, re-installed it (this time from the direct file download, as you mention (+ certificate etc)) but still I couldn't seem to regain control. It was then when I deleted all Plex generated references off the NAS and re-installed it was I prompted for the initial config options and 'logic' seemed to return. ;-)
Last thing I tried accessing the Plex server via my Antsir 4K media box and had some interesting results.
The Plex Add-In under Kodi seems to work ok (I can't remember if it would play all media, was just a quick go / no go test).
The generic 'Media Player' could find and play stuff ok (possibly DLNA?).
The full Plex client could find and play stuff off the Plex Server but you couldn't see the video (audio was fine, just a blank screen)?
Oh, and while I think of it, when I try to play stuff back on my phone it only runs for around 60 seconds? I wasn't sure if this was an issue (buffering / transcoding delay) or a limit on the 'Free' offering?
So that's where I am but I'll your questions ...
I don't think I can run a Plex Client on my NAS John (no video output).
I found where you could initiate a folder / media scan (I've since found several ways of accessing the same <g>) and asked it to do so but nothing happened (no Plex user access to my Media folder)
I'm just played a 'The Grand Tour' (that's playing perfectly) the Plex dashboard (running on a Portal) confirms that it's: DLNA - Generic Playing - 8:52 / 57:43 Local (127.0.0.1) Video SD(H.264) Audio Unknown (AAC Stereo)
Running another video simultaneously to My W10 Web client (only
32bit).
Plex Web - Firefox Playing - 2.32 / 57:43 Local (192.168.0.8) -3Mbps
Video SD(MPEG64) - SD(H264) - Transcode
Audio Unknown (MP3 Stereo) - AAC - Transcode
And the feed pauses now and again ...and looking at the Synology performance it's showing the CPU pegging red / 100%. Network bandwidth (out) is around 300 KB/s. Dropping the TV off doesn't help the Transcoding client's performance.
Hmm, can't seem to get to that on the Portal or a W10 browser client?
I did look at the NAS load stats directly at the time and it didn't look that bad?
I think it seems to be 'weak' clients atm.
I don't think so John. It was one of the first 'Smart' TV's out at the time and I'm not sure I've ever seen an update to the firmware .. <checks>
Oooo, I've just gone to the setup and noticed the update option was set to OTA. I changed it to Network and asked it to look for an update and it said it found one and is in the process of applying it .... Right, it's back <phew> but there doesn't seem to be any obvious UI / System changes.
So far they seem to be better than the Plex. ;-)
Probably the NAS trying to trranscode then. My second PC here is currently very busy doing something so I've paused it (Max Headroom <g>) and running the same thing on the Mrs dual core shows the same problems when playing and with the same 100% load on the NAS.
All machine here are generally able to play such stuff straight off the share so I believe I'm going to have to serve them off something more powerful. That, or not bother with Plex for this sort of thing, given I may still have to do a lot of re-formatting of the media to get everything happy?
I think what threw me is all the Home screen / web cr*p I didn't want to see and clicking on 'More' gives me access to my Plex Server but that and the Web 'Plex' stuff swap places in the display (throwing one off when ones Plex server is called Plex1). ;-(. ;-(
I think I have had one computer where playing stuff would not always show video - a video driver issue on the computer ISTR.
I am not aware of any limits of that nature. Might be worth mentioning that plex also run a decent set of fora, which can sometimes answer questions.
Thought that was probably the case, but just thought I would check.
(and to be fair the whole client/server thing can blur a little in some cases since if you for example have the server running on a PC and then point a browser running on the same machine at the server, you can consume content in the browser in addition to being able to configure the server)
It tends to auto scan on a scheduled basis anyway, but you can force it to scan again if you for example have just added a bunch of new stuff and want it visible "now".
So that suggests that in this case its transcoding, and hence you are being limited by the NAS's general lack of oomph... The key to success with this nas running the server as well as the hosting will be getting to the situation where it does not need to transcode.
(Although I have not investigated it particularly, ISTR there is an option to batch transcode / save the results of a transcode such that next time its needed, its no longer computational intensive)
I was talking about from a UI/ease of use PoV - obviously there is a lower level requirement that the actual playback works properly that needs to be met first. So if you can't achieve that, then I can see that will have a significant impact on ones assessment! :-)
Remember that the plex server does not have to be on the same hardware as the file system host. So you could have the server running on a PC, but still have the files hosted on the NAS.
(for historical reasons, I have two servers running - one on the NAS that also hosts the files, and a second on a desktop machine. However they both use the nas as the media store)
Yup naming stuff well is never as easy as it seems! (I called one plex server Wogan, and the old one is Jibber. At least they are not easily confused with other platforms on the network)
It was as well. Apart from the faff and frustration of it all, you do often learn more about it all when things go wrong like that. Initially it seems like you have to do a lot to get it working the first time and then on re-installs you learn the minimum.
Like on the final re-install and upon looking to play something on the TV over DLNA, the Synology server wasn't present. So I opened up that setting on the Plax server, toggled SLNA on, clicked on Save and as I did the server appeared on the TV. ;-)
It is, especially why you know (or have a better idea at least) *why* it didn't in the first place
Not sure what I can do about that on the Media box thing, but I do have alternative viewers (inc Plex on Kodi) that do work.
I was please to learn that I can also watch Plex stuff on the Portal (that appears to come up as 'Direct').
Ok. I'll try some more options / phones and see if there is a pattern.
<snip>
Ok.
Funnily enough, I'm generally ok with that sort of thing (conceptually).
<snip>
And I have found several other variables around that area.
<snip>
Or to offload the serving to another machine, files saved on the Synology NAS but served from say a RPi4? Would that likely to be any better than having the one thing on a RPi4? I wonder if OMV has a Plex server option. (A quick Google seems to suggest it might). It might still be 'better' to have a box acting as a (file) server that is also a Plex server and be able to run a local client to directly connect to a TV. CPU good enough to transode a couple of simultaneous streams and a video card good enough not to add much extra CPU load when running local stuff.
Ah, that would be cool and I have seen references to the Transcoding in the settings menus.
Any idea why I couldn't see these John?
<snip>
Quite.
Yup. It doesn't matter how flash the UI if you can't actually view anything. ;-)
OOI, the TV DNLA player gives you box to first select the server, than the media type, so say 'Films', then you get more boxes covering 'All' to several different sub choices, like Comedy, Drama etc.
I looks like it (or Plex server) also reflected the TV, to TGT> Series
1> E1 etc.
Apparently you have to be a bit careful re the file-naming as that can affect how they are databased?
<snip>
Check.
Understood. With your LAN based tuners you have a 'Distributed Media Serving Solution'. ;-)
As mentioned previously, I do have a WHS V2 that is only brought online now and again (to run the backups on some extra machines (to my WHS V1) but would probably be powerful enough to do the transcoding thing as well. The problem might be getting Plex up on it without running everything under a Hypervisor / VM's?
I know, I came back to that Firefox TAB and thought 'WhereTF has that server come from!. ;-)
Hehe.
Thanks again for all your help and patience here John.
Oh, something else I thought of, can I also include any of the catchup TV players on Plex, and the likes of Amazon Video and Netflix do you know please?
Yup, that was what I meant by a certain amount of blurring of the lines between client and server. You are using the browser to directly interact with the management console of the server, but it can also be a client in its own right at the same time.
Yup, that's a valid configuration.
It saves having to work out how to host and power loads of drives on the Pi.
Yup, seem to be doable:
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What version of server are you running? (I am running 4.22.3 at the mo)
I am not sure if all DLNA servers are created equal or if you can get a different end user experience on the client depending on what is serving on the back end.
Yup, when organising things in folders for it to index it helps if you give it some clues with your naming conventions. So say you have a folder called "Big Bang Theory", inside you would want folders called "Season 1", "Season 2" etc, then in those episodes if the filenames include a S1E3 style flag it also helps.
You may also find with music it will recognise a double album as two separate albums, until you go manually tweek some of the meta data in the details page for the albums.
Yup stuff comes from and goes to multiple places... and possibly round in circles a few times!
I suppose if I wanted to complicate it further I could host the linux version of the sever directly on my NAS, or even install a Docker host on the nas and find a container with it setup ready to go.
I think the windows version of the server needs something equivalent to Win 7 SP1 or later. WHS2 was Server 2003 based was it not?
No worries, its interesting to see what its like doing it again "from scratch" in a different environment. One is never quite sure which bits have been forgotten, or simply side stepped due to the peculiarities of the platforms I installed it on.
(and for that matter the danger of assuming that what I am thinking of as "standard" may be because I have a pass, or different hardware etc).
I don't think netflix et al provide documented APIs that would make that kind of integration possible (let alone have scope for it in their terms of service). Having said that, there are a variety of plug ins that do add on some of the catchup services:
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Plex does a good job of presenting an Netflix/Prime style interface to any media - it would be particularly nice if it could aggregate content from all your subscription and other channels so you can find stuff in one place.
So is there a PC client that just gives you the viewer without having access to the management features? I downloaded one on my W10/64 (There's no 32 bit client it seems) but I thought it just launched the same browser interface?
<snip>
My RPi3B OMV server has a 4TB USB drive powered directly from the same wall wart (directly) as powers the RPi and given the Toppy only had a
250GB drive, I can't see that setup being an issue (assuming it worked well enough etc). I can directly play videos off the OMV server so I know it works directly. We aren't massive film viewers and the Mrs is pretty good at deleting stuff (TV recordings) she has watched.
"Plex is active on OMV. You?ll now need to specify a hard drive for it to run on. Please take note that OMV is a NAS operating system, and will not let users put share files on the same hard drive that the OS is on. Ensure that you?ve already got a second hard drive (or dedicated data partition set up)."
So, if it was dedicated OMV based Plex server then I could have a small SSD for the OS / OMV and whatever size was suitable for the Plex shares?
I don't suppose the passive cooled slimline Shuttle would be much / any better at the transcoding stuff than my Synology NAS and again, probably not if I expect to use it as a client as well (some have HDMI etc). Might be worth a play. ;-)
<snip>
Same.
Probably.
Check.
Ok.
<snip>
;-)
I've not got into Docker yet but it looks like a neat idea (again, if it works). ;-)
I think V1 was based on WS 2003 R2, V2 was WS 2008 R2 and as an aside, is also has DNLA serving built in. ;-)
Especially with someone who is questioning every step? ;-)
Understood. I've nudged a few people towards running OMV and as you say, it's interesting to see how they get on and what pitfalls they find because of their needs / hardware etc.
And that. It's partly why I got a Portal after we got 4 of them for Mum and 3 other family members. I set Mum's one up and then advised daughter with hers and then was able to do tests (inc having to do factory resets etc) so were in a better position to get the other two online. Then we missed having one so got one for ourselves, and another for Mums good friend (birthday) and I helped her set that one up remotely (social distancing). She's in her 80's so did quite well, inc having to have to do a factory reset. ;-)
That was the hope, but (from other Googling) that seems to be still in the client realm (Roku / Firestick boxes etc).
I think I have a brand new NowTV box somewhere and I like them because they have an Ethernet port (saves cluttering up the WiFi airwaves) and if I could sideload Plex (or Kodi with Plex add-in) then it might make a cheap client solution (I don't need HD atm).
Google TV seems to be another option and I was going to see if I could install that on my Chrome OS USB Live boot (although I'm not sure it can access local material).
So, if I get the network tuner, do I point it's output to the Plex share (TV folder?) and then the clients just access it like anything else and where does the EPG come from please? If the EPG doesn't come from the tuner, could I have that now (as an experiment)?
There is (was) a plex media player, but that still lets you do much the same as the web interface and gives a very similar UX. That has been superseded by simply "plex for windows".
Yup, should be plenty storage wise. I would guess it would be a bit more tricky if you want to RAID multiple drives.
Sounds like it...
What CPU has it got?
Erm, in which case I don't know... I don't think I did any special to enable that display.
I think its pretty mainstream these days, and lots of organisations are using it for substatial workloads.
Having said that I claim no expertise in that - its more a case of I know what it does and I can see why its useful, but that is about it!
2008 was Vista based IIRC - so possibly still too ancient.
I can confirm that plex plays nice with a chromecast (both normal and "audio" version. Just bring up the interface on a phone etc, select media and tell it to cast to your device of choice. It then sets up the streaming but steps out of the loop itself.
Makes it quite nice when having a barbi in the garden - people can request tracks and one can just add them to the queue for playback.
The network tuner (well mine anyway) in itself does not have any output options or ability to talk to storage directly etc - its just a streaming source. You point something at it, and it serves. It includes a web server, and I have managed to get various things to play from it including in a browser, using VLC, a and various media players on my phone.
The software that comes with it includes a live player with very limited EPG, and that can be pointed at storage for trick play etc. Same for the bundled recording software. However the recording (was at least last time I looked) fairly "austere" - more like using a VCR - tell it the time and channel to record etc. I have not used it in anger.
Plex will find it and add it to its pool of tuners, and then you get its comprehensive EPG to play with. It obviously takes care of the storage and playback at that point as well as the scheduling and de-conflicting of tuners etc.
I tried to install Plex on my OMV5 on the Shuttle (potentially as just a music server) and it looks like it can't be installed directly as a plug-in bit has to go in via Docker or Portainer?
Given that's more complicated that I fancy right now, I might just look at knocking up a Linux server or anything else that gives me as close a server OOTB whist also being useable as a client.
Whilst Googling earlier I was reminded of the TV Turner I'd added to Raspberry Pi a while back. I think I had used it locally (TVHeadend as the Blackend and something else as the viewer) but it was a bit sluggish (it did work though).
So I fired it up, installed Kodi and the TVHeadend addon, set the IP address and bingo, there I was watching Network streamed TV. ;-)
I've also added Kodi to another PC and it's working even better on that (C2D not Atom), INC the EPG and recording (to the 64GB uSD card on the RPi atm) / playback.
It seemed that every time I tried to Google to Plex for something there was some 'gotcha', 'it used to work but they have now dropped support' or 'you can't get the add-on for it now' etc etc.
The only hitch so far is that I can't seem to access the same add-in on Kodi on the little media streamer but then that's running a fairly old version of Android (although I think it might be a reasonably late version of Kodi).
I'll have to look into the spec of the Pi tuner and I doubt you could add more than one tuner per Pi?
At least that's given me a bit more of a feel for the idea of network streaming TV.
If I set the recording folder to one of my existing shares (Synonology) a can access the recordings from the DLNA player on the TV (if it will play them) and with Plex on those things that can use it.
I am no container expert, but from the little time I have spent looking, they do appear to make a number of installations much simpler since they get shot of most of the pre-conditions and stuff that needs doing "before you start".
Thanks for that. So, I get what they are and why they are 'better' (than VM's) in some circumstances but not sure how they would work / help me in this instance?
So I am running OMV on a Linux and want to add something (a Plex server in this instance) so I install Docker on my OMV Linux and that runs *another* Linux (but sharing the hosts resources) that can just offer say the Plex server without any limitations that might apply to the OMV Installation? [1]
So, shouldn't install Linux, install Docker *then* install my OMV server and my Plex server containers, or is that's what is happening when I install Docker via OMV (even though it's a service running on a Linux)?
It's funny, Docker reminds me of NLM's with Netware 3.12! ;-)
Cheers, T i m
[1] If part of the benefit of Docker is the isolation between the containers, I'm guessing there would be 'connection' if say I wanted to give Plex access to the OMV shares?
Basically it means someone can package a complete and working application / service / whatever, and take care of all the dependencies. You download it, and kick it into life, and it works...
So for example, configuring the classic LAMP stack can become a single operation rather than setting up MySQL/Maria, Apache, PHP etc all individually.
You could do either, although having your main "rolls" containerised is perhaps more elegant, and also better from a security point of view.
One might say there are no new ideas - just evolution :-)
Yup, but in the same way as if they were running on totally separate boxes sat on the (virtualised in this case) network.
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