Allow wheels stuck on car.

[The Natural Philosopher]

The wheel had been stolen, and the cage screwed back only enough to stay put for a couple of miles?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yes. mostly it is

[Jethro_uk]

Somewhere in the bowels of the manufacturer, yes. Although by the time it reaches the workshop it will have been made fitter-friendly. To the extent that the general rule is you don't lubricate threads unless it's explicitly stated in the manual.

On the odd occasion I've caught an Air Crash Investigation programme, I've always been impressed at the level of detail for each operation and part ... (somewhere on the internet I did see once a scanned copy of a service manual for a RR Merlin ...)

[Dave Plowman (News]

Wheel fixings are generally massively over specced. They have to be, given the gorillas in the average tyre place.

I've used copper grease on my SD1 wheel centres and studs for the past 30 odd years. If that was going to be a bad thing, I'd guess I'd know by now.

[Dave Plowman (News]

On the early Rover V8, the Rover manual stated to use a thread sealer/lubricant on the head bolts. And indeed every other thread into alluminium. Later BL manuals omitted this sealer (dunno why) but the torque setting the same. Even later versions used stretch bolts.

[Fredxx]

I'll bite, why not copper grease?

Especially as it's often conveniently at hand and put on high temperature components like brake parts.

[T i m]

<snip>

I never have but though it was a fairly common occurrence?

Mate took the ally wheels off his Peugeot 407 the other day, or tried to (to change the brake disks and pads) and ended up with a length of

4x2 across the width of the car and hitting it with a club hammer whilst another turned the wheel in stages to get them off.

I had the exact same issue on a mobility scooter (ally hub steel wheel) and also ended up with a length of timber across the scooter and a big hammer to get it to come off (and not just a few gentle taps, quite a few fairly firm hits). It was obvious that the other side had suffered previously but whoever took that wheel off used a steel hammer directly on the rim. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[Andrew]

Neighbour took the front wheel off a Zafira to fix a sticky caliper recently. Car had been fitted with new front tyres for its MOT by a KwikFit or similar.

He needed to use all his strength and weight on a ?4 foot bar to get the wheel nuts undone.

[Fredxx]

My owner's manual gives a warning, "Do not grease wheel bolt, wheel nut and wheel nut cone".

However, where there is a central locating lug I would be happy to place a smear of copper grease on this to prevent corrosion and subsequent stiction.

[NY]

Everyone says that it requires great strength to loosen wheel nuts/bolts, but I've never had a problem, and I'm sure I'm not superhumanly strong. The trick I was taught by my grandpa was to leave the flat wheel on the ground (so it can't turn), stand sideways on facing backwards if it's a front wheel or forwards if it's a rear wheel, grip the shaft of the (cranked) wheelbrace with the hand further from the wheel, raise the foot closer to the wheel and press down on the cranked part while simultaneously pulling up on the shaft (to prevent the wheelbrace being pulled off the nut or bolt-head). Be prepared to give the wheelbrace a bit of a kick if the nut is stuck. Once the nut has turned slightly, jack the wheel up and loosen the nuts the rest of the way by hand.

Not as easy to do with modern L-shaped wheelbraces...

Does anyone know why most (all?) car manufacturers changed at about the same time (late 70s?) from using nuts onto studs in the hub, to bolts into holes in the hub? The latter is a lot easier because you can "hang" the wheel from the central protrusion in the hub, and rotate it until the holes in the wheel line up with those in the hub, rather than having to simultaneously locate all four holes in the wheel with the four protruding bolts on the hub. Grandpa's other bit of advice: when removing or replacing the wheel, squat down facing it with the knees apart, resting the forearms on the inside of the thighs and the hands at about 8 and 4 o'clock on the wheel - this provides support for the wheel while offering it up so small adjustments can be made by moving the hands.

I remember I was once cycling home from school when I saw a very attractive young female teacher (though she never taught me) from my school struggling to change the wheel on her Moggie Minor. So I did the gentlemanly thing and stopped to see if she needed any help - I worded it tactfully as "would you like any help or can you manage?" so as not to assume that she *needed* help. First brownie point for that! When she said that she wasn't strong enough, I asked whether she'd like me to do it for her or to show her an easier way, she chose to do it herself under my guidance. Second brownie point for not just wading in and taking over! So I showed her grandpa's patent method, tactfully looking away as her skirt rode up (OK, I did glance at her thighs... several times!). She was very grateful. She came *this* close to hugging me and giving me a kiss - then remembered that she was a teacher and I was "only" a pupil. A memorable encounter...

[Dave Plowman (News]

Simply don't agree. With most offset wheels, they won't hang on the hub anyway. So you need two hands to keep them in place - leaving none for the bolt. My last BMW with bolts provided a dummy bolt in the toolkit - basically a bolt with no head. To help with alignment.

[Michael Chare]

The latter. No movement until the wheel suddenly comes right off.

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote on 02/12/2020 :

Yep, copper grease. You only need to smear it where the alloy interfaces tightly against the hub, by the studs. You will only need to do it once and it lasts for years.

[Michael Chare]

I have stopped putting a little grease on the wheel bolts but I never had a problem doing so. On my current car the bolts have to be done up to 140nm. On an earlier version of the car the torque was 120nm. I noticed that it was sometimes quite difficult to undo the bolts even with my normal breaker bar, so as I was not sure how I would get on with the tools that came with the car I bought a socket and long breaker bar to keep in the car by the spare wheel.

[Robin]

I had 2 new tyres at a Halfords Autocentre where they greased the hubs.

[Dave Plowman (News]

You can buy a nice telescopic wheel brace. On minimum about the same size as the car one so fits the tool kit or whatever. Fully extended about the same size as a breaker bar. Mine came with a reversible socket for two common sizes - but is a standard 1/2" square drive anyway. As of course the old car isn't a modern size.

[Tim+]

Some people think (and it may be true, in theory) that copper in contact with alloy can accelerate corrosion. I suspect that the amount of copper is insufficient to actually cause a problem. Certainly very many people in the car trade use copper grease for this purpose without problems.

Tim

[newshound]

OK, sounds like sticking at the flat surface then. I had more problems on one of my recent cars (steel wheels) with the wheel being very tight on the cylindrical spigot, and needing to be wiggled off.

Perhaps some electrolytic corrosion between the steel and the alloy creating a "glue"? Or perhaps the inner face of the alloy wheel has been "touched up" with an unsuitable paint, and that is forming an adhesive layer.

[newshound]

+1, I keep one under the seat of my Renault Master ever since the first time I had to change a wheel.

[T i m]

+1, safely located in the under-load-bay on the Meriva. Previously I carried a folding 'spider' brace and whilst you could get quite a bit of power on it by lifting one side and pushing down on the other (arms out straight from above and mainly using your upper-body / shoulders), I don't think it has the power of the telescopic one.

Yeah, but as you say, being 1/2" sqdr I carry additional sockets as needed for the various trailers etc.

Cheers, T i m