A really bad piece of work.

As I commented some months back, in what appears to be a major program of replacing gas boilers in council places a year or two back (as evidenced by all the council properties suddenly growing copper vines up all the exterior walls), there's not one bit of sleeving used anywhere -- all the pipes are mortared directly in (very neatly so, it has to be said).

When I put my heating in some years back, I had only ever seen plastic pipe used as sleeves. For the 28mm pipe, I used 40mm plastic (or might have been 32mm, but I doubt that would have fitted). For the 22m and 15mm pipework, I sleeved it in next size up copper. I'd never seen this done, and I did wonder if someone might claim it was non-conformant because the sleeve might corrode in the wall. Where I had 15mm water pipes going through walls, I sleeved those in 20mm plastic electrical conduit. I was expecting the water pipes to slide in the sleeving due to expansion and contraction, but with the gas pipework sleeved in copper, the gas pipe is fixed so it runs centrally through the sleeve and can't touch (these sleeves are between rooms, so there's no seal either side).

Copper sliding against copper can eventually wear through the pipe. Had a number of aircon systems fail due to this in various commercial premises.

Incidentally, the putty-type seal which British Gas have used in my meter box is reacting nicely with the copper pipe it surrounds. The resulting copper salts have migrated some way into the putty.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel
Loading thread data ...

Both.

It must be capable of containing or distributing gas.

When a pipe goes across a cavity the sleeve is meant to prevent any gas escaping into that cavity and building up into a dangerous situation.

One end of the sleeve will be left open to carry away any leaks (usually to the out side air.

Reply to
Heliotrope Smith

It is CORGI registerd operatives that cannot do work do work for pay unless they are CORGI registered in their own right.

Reply to
Heliotrope Smith

Usually? Well that's OK then :-)

In any case But de Law is de Law. (As in de Law of de Land, not de Law of Science).

Reply to
YAPH

I've been meaning to blag a bit of yellow PE when I next see a roadside gas replacement going on. No-one could argue that it's unsuitable for carrying gas, it'd identify the pipe it's sleeving as gas, and it'd not be likely to itself corrode in the wall as a copper sleeve could do.

Reply to
YAPH

Eric: I'm playing the right notes. But not necessarily in the right order!

Reply to
John Stumbles

Heliotrope Smith coughed up some electrons that declared:

Although it's more of a backup, rather than normal mode of operation.

I can't see a little bit of gas leakage (which is itself unlikely in a short length of continuous pipe) permeating through, say, a bit of thick 40mm plastic waste pipe into the cavity before rolling on out the other end to free air.

What I'm getting at, is whilst these rules are written with the best of intentions, aren't we worrying a bit too much?

I can present counterarguments why sleeving in copper or iron is prone to failure:

a) The copper sleeve will be at as much risk of chemical attack by the wall as the original pipe;

b) Copper and iron is a bad combination as there is a risk of dissimilar metal corrosion with the copper being sacrificial.

Not to mention possible friction wear as Andrew mentioned.

I'm not questioning your excellent knowledge of the rule book, but stepping back and using common sense and a bit of basic science, it seems to me that a bit of PVC or PET pipe, gas approved or not, is actually the best thing to use as a sleeve, or if using an iron sleeve, then denso round the copper would be a good idea to avoid corrosion and friction.

Cheers

Tim

Reply to
Tim S

Heh!

Anybody else?

:-)

Reply to
YAPH

YAPH coughed up some electrons that declared:

Good idea.

Actually, marking gas in the house would be good to (the odd wrap of yellow PVC tape would be good!).

I found myself looking at several parallel runs of 22mm last week and I was sure that two in particular were water. It was only when I followed them down to the bowells of darkness behind the HW cylinder I could see one joining what I know to be a gas pipe and even then you had to look really hard to determine which of the two...

Would have been very easy to put my pipe cutter through the wrong one!

Cheers

Tim

Reply to
Tim S

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember YAPH saying something like:

The two parallel threaded joints into the barrel.

Reply to
Grimly Curmudgeon

Think 'the law' has proved it needs questioning on things technical. Many many times. Too many axes being ground when forming such legislation and politicians and civil servants too thick to know when the wool is being pulled over their eyes.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Interesting. I had such an inspection recently, but I don't think the guy pulled the cooker out from the wall to have a look at its connection. I believe he did do a manometer leak test on the house as a whole (I wasn't looking over his shoulder noting everything he did) but AIUI the cooker you showed wasn't actually leaking yet.

Pete

Reply to
Pete Verdon

It sounds so dodgy that I wouldn't have bought it let alone fixed it if it didn't have a mechanical fixing.

Even if you follow the instructions there is still a duty of care on your part.

Reply to
dennis

Well don't try and fix it or do anything like turning the gas off if you aren't corgi registered. You wouldn't want to get into any more trouble. ;-)

At least gas doesn't cause stains.

Reply to
dennis

The bayonet should be fitted so nothing can drop in. The wrong type of seals are on the thread (the ptfe isn't thick enough to seal the threads properly). I doesn't look neat enough. It wasn't obvious that it was the wrong way around from the first picture.

Reply to
dennis

Indeed. The risk with copper will be slim. Something like the stainless anaconda pipes adjacent to the meter are however far more vulnerable to stray flux damage.

Good point actually, I presume lead free is also ok for gas these days, but is there an official position on it?

Reply to
John Rumm

It does, but only if the bayonet "socket" is on the supply side and the bayonet "plug" is the appliance side.

Reply to
Andy Burns

Someone mentioned fluxes and corrosion. All electronic fluxes are heat activated types, since corrosion of the very thin pcb traces is a critical issue.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

They're probbaly still technically not allowed because they're not approved for gas work :-( (De Law is De Law department.)

Reply to
YAPH

As far as I know copper and iron is not a bad combination.

The problem is with copper and galvenised iron, this is where corrosion can occor bettween dissimilar metals.

Yes. the regulations do not rule out Polyethelene, PVC plastic waste pipe etc.

There must be a gap between the the gas pipe and the sleeve to allow any gas to escape, thus ruling out any packing of denso or any suchlike material.

Reply to
Heliotrope Smith

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.