12 Small Windmills Put To the Test In Holland

"A real-world test by the Dutch province of Zeeland (a very windy place) demonstrates that small windmills are a fundamentally flawed technology. Twelve much-hyped micro wind turbines were placed in a row on an open plain. Their energy yield was measured over a period of one year (April 1, 2008 — March 31, 2009), the average wind velocity during these 12 months was 3.8 meters per second, slightly higher than average. Three windmills broke. The others recorded ridiculously low yields, in spite of the optimal conditions. It would take up to 141 small windmills to power an average American household entirely using wind energy, for a total cost of 780,000 dollars. The test results show clearly that energy return is closely tied to rotor diameter, and that the design of the windmill hardly matters."
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid /04/19/2022214
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so does that mean it'd take one windmill to power 141 small european households who don't any of the power hogging crap the yanks stuff into their homes?
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John Stumbles wrote:

Well any aerodynamicist could have told him that.
Its roughly diameter cubed times windspeed IIRC.
Our results from model aircraft propellors suggest there is only about 2:1 change in efficiency (sort of 35%-70% eff.) from the very best blade design to the very worst.
And at low airspeeds, what you want is diameter, diameter, diameter..

Usual ecobollox.
'1001 ways to pretend to be saving the planet whilst wasting your money into snake oil salesmen's pockets.'
Firmly in there with Uk domestic solar heating, CFL bulbs, and unplugging all your chargers..and your TV..or using LCD TV..
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John Stumbles wrote:

Well any aerodynamicist could have told him that.
Its roughly diameter cubed times windspeed IIRC.
Our results from model aircraft propellors suggest there is only about 2:1 change in efficiency (sort of 35%-70% eff.) from the very best blade design to the very worst.
And at low airspeeds, what you want is diameter, diameter, diameter..

Usual ecobollox.
'1001 ways to pretend to be saving the planet whilst wasting your money into snake oil salesmen's pockets.'
Firmly in there with Uk domestic solar heating, CFL bulbs, and unplugging all your chargers..and your TV..or using LCD TV..
Hi We will have to do all of that and more when people/tree huggers start buying electric vehicles
Robbie
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I'd buy a Tesla if I had 66k spare.
Colin Bignell
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If I had 66K spare I'd be on a beach in the Caribbean...
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nightjar <cpb@ wrote:

Me too. One passed me on the A11 heading back to base.. Not hanging around for sure..
But it would further wreck the govts coffers..no road fuel duty on electricity..

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On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:56:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Yet. As the treasury gets something in the order of 25% of it's total income from fuel duty if something starts to reduce that they'll find a means of getting it back.
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Dave Liquorice wrote:

Don't see an easy way though..tax the batteries perhaps? Hardly conducive to 'green' policies..
Not easy to tag electrons either to see which socket they came out of..
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well, they can whack the VAT rate on domestic fuel back up to 15% / 17.5%
Then there could be a fossil fuel levy on the generating and distributing companies.
Would all help a bit.
Owain
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25 Billion, not 25%
about 5% of government income.
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On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:56:36 +0100

Yet. No duty at all on air, but don't hold your breath on Wednesday.
R.
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At the moment. But if electric cars become common, they'll have to find a way of taxing them.
Likely a mileage charge - that could be used for IC engined cars too.
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

There's a thought. Your MOT costs vary depending on the odometer readings..
Or tyres..tax tyres ..the more you wear the tyres out the more you must wear the road out!!
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On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:49:52 +0100, The Natural Philosopher

That would make it expensive for people who live in rural areas ( no change there then ) and effectively pay people to sit in city traffic jams for hours on end.

People would fit harder tyres, which would chew up the road surface even more.
Both sound like excellent ideas that any right-thinking gov'mint should adopt immediately...
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'Road pricing' could be varied according to traffic density.

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Stephen Howard wrote:

well that's all right., They are leccy cars so apart from listening to Ipods and keeping their tootsies warm (or cold) they ain't using any power or wearing any roads out!

Hmm. Thts a puzzler that is. Nit sure how true that really is.

And prolly will once leccy cars get over 10%...

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...
IME it is the other way around. When my late father and I went on motor rallies, we fitted soft compound tyres that wore out in about 5000 miles, but they grip they gave was like driving on tram lines.
Colin Bignell
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On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:01:34 +0100, "nightjar" <cpb@<insert my surname here>.me.uk> wrote:>

Haven't got the original post, so will reply here:
I'm not sure how true it is either, but of tyres can damage roads ( as they obviously do ) then a harder tyre surely has to be more wearing on the surface.

Indeed, while there's no premium on tyres this remains a viable choice ( if you don't mind trading the cost of replacing tyres more frequently with having good grip ) - but as soon as you slap a hefty tax on them the vast majority of people will jump to harder compounds given that most of them will have no idea what sort of spec their current tyres are.
Regards,
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On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:34:53 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Hasn't it been talked about anyway - with the added 'benefit' that the gov't would know where any vehcile had been at any given moment in time...
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